HAROLD’S aka HAL’S PAGE

Rogerscap@aol.com Dec 2004

 

Nov 21, 2004

Hello Marie, This is Harold Rogers and I have some updates on the Sellars charts that you

have posted on google. Contact me at the e-mail provided for the next week or write to me at 4655 Emerald Street, Capitola, Ca. 95010 -AlexanderJanpete@aol.com

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HAROLD, thank you!

can you email them to me?

marie, iowa

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davidsellars1798_1891.jpg   = David Sellars

born July 17th, 1798 Rockingham County, Virginia

three wives Margaret B. Mears, Nancy Garber and Sarah Morris

Died March 2nd, l891 Salida, California

Buried at Oak Hill Memorial Cemetery, San Jose, California

 

Henry Miller

born April 27th, 1830 Ste. Genevieve, Missouri

married to Catherine Emiline Sellars, daughter of David Sellars

married September 19th, l858 in Ripon, California

Died March 17th, l904 in Salida, California {at his 1866 homestead}

Buried at the Park View Cemetery, French Camp, California

 catherinesellers1841_1914_ henrymiller1830_1904.jpg

Catherine Emiline Sellars, Miller

born May 25th, l841 in Washville, Carter County, Tennessee

married to Henry Miller September l9th, 1858 in Ripon, California

Died March 29th, l914 in Stockton, California {at her daughter Lola Long's home}

Buried at the Park View Cemetery in French Camp, California

Bohannon FAMILIES

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Revised Jan 2, 2005 HAL’S PAGE

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PETER SELLERS

 

===

Nov 21, 2004

Hello Marie, Thanks for getting the information out on the net regarding the Sellars genealogy chart from l981. I updated the chart in l984 for another Sellars relative since

deceased and have been crowding my margins with additional information. Soon I will have the LDS gentlemen load up the paff program on my new computer in Capitola and all future

updates will be readily accessible to all on the internet. My charts are still antiquated and

this internet business is new, daunting but fun.

I'm at my moms for Thanksgiving week so you can continue using this e-mail for the duration of next week. After that and until my computer is up and running you can write me at 4655 Emerald Street, Capitola 95010 {address is the same}. I am going to send the new

paff stuff to you so be patient for that. What I want to e-mail to you are some interesting

clues to start you on some new paths of discovery regarding the Sellars/Sellers lineage.

In addition to the paff charts I'll be sending you will be some copies of some old letters written by David Sellars {1798-1891}. It should give you some insight into his personality.

I have one large photo of him with the information about George Washington Valley forge campaign on the back- you'll be getting a copy.

You also might want to contact Nora Tocus, 122N Clark St.#1801, Chicago, Il 60610 or ectocus@rcn.com  .............She is descended from David Sellars and his first wife Margaret

Mears and has data on the Bohannon descendants. She also has an interesting story to

tell about a misadventure that occurred on the wagon trip in l853 to California.......I'll

let her tell you about that one.

Now for some clues: David Sellars {1798-1891} of Washington and Carter county, Tennessee left last from Carter county, Tennessee in 1850 and farmed for an additional two years in Missouri before gathering up a large family contingent for the wagon trip to California in l853. Some family members have been saying l852 but they are wrong and the

proof is in the census records where the birth placement of one of the children is not even questionable. Ithink some family members have confused the trip of Catherine Sellars'

husband's trip in l852 with that of Catherine's in l853.

The family contingent was large consisting of Sellars, Garber's and Morris's all traveling together.

As has been stated, on the back of a very old photo of David Sellars in handwriting, it is statred that "the father and three uncles of David Sellars were body guards and interpreters for George Washington during the Valley Forge campaign - my history may be a little rusty here but I believe that occurred in the year 1778.

David Sates in the l880 census that his father was born in New York and that his mother was born in New Jersey. I think this is correct as the rest of the census checks out with what we know about the family.

Family tradition states that this family was Dutch and they spoke the German language.

Family tradition is very adamant that David Sellars owned slaves, that these slaves wanted to go with the family to California but this was not done due to the free status of California

having been entered into the union with the condition that slavery was not to be permiited there.

The slaves were all sold {I believe I have the names somewhere and there were about three or four} and the money was used to pay for some of the trasvel expenses. One of the slaves was a balcksmith and some of the hand forged tools he made were brought on one of the wagons that did not slip over board from the ferry crossing the Mississippi river. It was on

this mishap that the original family bible was lost. The next mishap in Wyoming you can ask Nora about.

There was some friction among some of the Garbers {Recall that David Sellars second wife, Nancy Garber, and this is the line from which I am descended - the family that brought us Gerber baby food and the family that founded Garberville, California}.(Humboldt Co., Ca, msh)  The Garbers were from the Church of the Brethren and they object very strongly to "the sin of slavery" and Samuel Garber, a minister, preached against slavery at some risk to his own life. Samuel was Nancy's brother and l have been in touch with his descendants who still live around the Modesto and Manteca, California area. The families continued to stay close together and began a Brethren church which is still active to this day. The sermon is posted on google and you might want to locate it by tapping in Samuel Garber and either Tennesse or Virginia.

If the story of David's father being with George Washington in l778 is accurate {keep in mind David named one of his son's many years later after him - David George Washington Sellars} and if David's father waas at least twenty years old and the time of the 1778 campaign then he would have to have been born by about 1758 or earlier in New York. He is fighting with his three brothers in Pennsylvanaia and New Jersey in the late l770's and then they settled by 1798 and I think much earlier {by 1783 at the end of the war} in RockinghamCounty, Virginia as this is the birth place of David Sellars {7-17-1798}.

You mention question marks placed next to the three marriages of David Sellars. There is no question about any of these wives or their marriage dates - all found in public records and

accessible on the net.

The Sellars had reached the Utah Territory of Wyoming when David's daughter gave birth at La Bonta Creek near the Platte Rivder just off the Oregon Trail.

After David Sellars arrived in California he was both a school teacher and sheriff at Knights Ferry, California.( Stanislaus Co, Ca,msh) Farming, homesteading in the San Joaquin Valley as well as peddling fruits and vegetables in Santa Clara, California, etc.

I am hoping more Sellars descendants will discover the net searches and open up their records for all to see and build upon.

The names and dates we have here in California were reconstructed and placed in the family Bible purchased after the Sellars arrived in California in l853. Remember the original family Bible was lost to the bottom of the Mississippi River when the ferry overturned in about mid-April of l853.

Hope this is useful to all and please keep up the search for the parents. I am aware that some

are saying the parents of David Sellars are Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellars. I am

not refuting that....I just want to know if the data we have so far fits????? Thank you,

Hal Rogers, 4655 Emerald Street, Capitola, Ca. 95010 {AlexanderJanpete@aol.com}

11-20-2004

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HAROLD, thank you.

Very Interesting side notes that we should follow up on and try and find more documentation.

 

You/WE can work on the Valley Forge info , Not many proven to where they went = NEED.

 

WE can work on PETER SELLERS = make a timechart , follow up on any kids.

MORE info on EACH child of DAVID SELLERS = When and Where they are every year or so =

 

WE would love to have a picture of DAVID SELLERS = Where did this come from?

Another family had his picture? OR it was saved from river accident?

HOW was it the MS river if they lived in MO and went to CA????

 

WHAT is the diff bet Catherine SELLERS' husbands trip in 1852

AND

CATHERINE'S trip in 1853???

 

Would like name of Slaves = very important, esp if listed in a will , etc, given to him by family?

 

Would appreciate NORA sharing her stories on this family. Sometimes, just One name or Place can help prove!

 

YES, I see that 1880 CA census info = DAD born NY, MOM NJ =

THIS info should be timed charted with our Rock Co, VA SELLERS, etc.

WE/I  don't know if each child is proven or lost in between?

AND we have more than one Peter Sellers and his brothers probably had kids with this name.

Have we found others with NY/NJ parents?

 

ANSWER what you can and THANK YOU for sharing SELLERS.

marie, iowa 

=

to SELLERS GROUP

Does ANYONE have a time chart on this family? = PETER SELLERS

OR any PETER SELLERS =

 

SHARING possibilities and documents  might help prove.

 

HEINRICH/HENRY SELLERS 1704 immigrant, to Phil , Pa 1738  had a son Peter ca 1739.

They were in Aug Co, VA 1750 and Rock Co, VA 1769.

 

ARE we missing some records here?

 

OR do we have ANOTHER SELLERS family born NY that came to Rock Co, VA 1790's?

 

marie, iowa

Hello Marie, Recently started working with a genealogy expert at LDS family history center in Santa Cruz and her name is Karen Roberts. I will see where we can take the Valley Forge information to. If you have a rough draft for Peter Sellars timeline send it to me so we will be on the same page when sharing notes.

As for picture of David Sellars, it comes from his daughter Catherine Emeline Sellars thru her daughter and my great grandmother Kiturah Cordilia "Kittie" C.Miller (Miller, Abell). Yes, she was a miller and she married a miller and both these miller families had ranches adjacent to one another in Salida California at about the time that David Sellars was living there in the l880-90's. Keep in mind he moved around and stayed with the many children he had in Northern and Central California. My mom has the picture of David Sellars.

You ask if the picture was saved from the river accident ..........again keep in mind that David Sellars lived for almost forty years after the trip to California - plenty of time to have his

picture taken after arriving in California. It appears to me to have been taken in the 1880's

and he still has hair but is quite old. It is about an 8x10 photo - one of the larger photos in our collection.

Good question about the Mississippi River mishap. As you know from an earlier e-mail the Sellars did not leave for California in l850. They did however leave Tennessee around l849-50 and if you look into Mercer county, Missouri........ I believe you will find them farming there at the time of the census. I would say that all these household members went on the trip to California in 1853. But not everyone is there in Mercer! David's daughter Mahala Jane "Jennie" Sellars (Jones) and her sister Margaret Luticia Sellars (Horn,Whaley) were born in Mercer county, Missouri on 5/30/1850 and 7/25/1852 respectively. The other Garbers and Morris's may well still have been in Tennessee and simply arranged to meet somewhere between St. Louis and St. Joe or Independence, Missouri. The wagon overturned according to notes kept in Margaret Luticia Sellars family. Margarets granddaughter, now deceased, lived near me in Santa Cruz

and notes that were scribbled into a diary were photographed about this mishap. I am trying to find two intriguing dates of deaths she had written on a small piece of paper with only the first names ......... It was either Michael and Catherine or Peter and Catherine and the deaths dates were about l839. I need to find these because I didn't know what to make of these names and dates when she first showed them to me. Have since learned that these could be for Nancy Garbers parents Michael and Catherine or David Sellars parents Peter and Catherine.........I will look for them when I get back to Captiola.

The differences between the l852 trip and l853 trip are many. In l852 the train bringing Henry Miller (Catherine Sellars would marry him in l858) was a train drawn by horses. The Sellars train on the other hand was drawn by oxen in l853. The oldest Miller boy had already arrived in California in l849 ( a true forty-niner) and there was a flurry of letters between the Millers that stayed behind in Farmington, Missouri and those who left for California in l849 and 1852. I have a collection of letters - over 100 that have been transcribed and I promised to send Nora a copy of one that I have written by her great grandfather Jeremiah Bohannon.

Milton Miller homesteaded over 1500 acres of land off the French Camp Road and the home is still standing. His brothers Robert and Henry (my gr.gr.grandfather) would establish a little

grocery store in Stockton where they sold dry goods including picks and shovels to the miners.

Do not know the circumstances of just when Catherine Sellars met Henry Miller but the store seems a likely possibility. They were married nearby in Ripon in l858.

Recently, another letter surfaced, from one of Catherine Sellars boyfriends back in Tennessee and written before Catherine married Henry Miller. It is a love letter from some old beau {his full name was used in the letterso we should be able to locate him in the l850 census for Tennessee - probably Carter county} that Catherine had to leave behind when the family started out west to California.I know she was about twelve years old in 1853. She may well have taken this letter on her person as they left Missouri for California. The letter could have been brought to her from family members joing up with them in Missouri. The letter was torn up and then carefully sewed by hand back together and placed in Catherine's family Bible {Catherine did not have a Family Bible at age twelve, this was a Bible that was purchased by her father in California}.

I am not going to rule out the possibility that the Sellars wagon fell into some other river along the way .........they forded a number of rivers along the way. The La Bonte river is

an example of just one of the mishaps where the child {Mary La Bonta Bohannon (Theirl) } was literally born in the river before she was stolen by the Indians and later returned.

My great grandmother made the distinction between the trips of l852 and l853 and I still have the letters written to me about this time period. I myself was twelve years old when the letter exchanges began. I think my first letter with her is dated l967 and she lived til l973.

I moved into her home in Capitola in l973 fresh out of high school and just months after she died.

Will try to find the document with names of the slaves. Could have been a will that I came across but I do not remember. Much of the genealgoy was put away for years and is only just now seeing the light of day in this computer age of research. Did I tell you that Cora Miller {another of David Sellars granddaughters who remembered him, the slaves he talked about, who baby sat for Cora as a small child in Salida} was stilll in possession of the blacksmith tools forged by one of these slaves in Tennessee? You can tell they were hammered out on an anvil and according to the story this would have been sometime in the 1840's before they were sold. I was given the tools and keep them in Capitola. Cora was using a few of them to turn the wood over in her wood burning stove back in the l970's!

Nora can give you the run down on the Bohannon's {Mary Adaline Sellars} was the fourth child of David Sellars and his first wife Margaret Mears. She married Jeremiah Bohannon and it is interesting to watch the dates and places for the births of Children. It is like a diary

of where they were on the trip and after they arrived in California.

Good question about other Sellars with New York births and a spouse from New Jersey!

I would like to know anything that can be found about any of the New York state Sellars. They may have emigrated before the Revolutionary war OR they may have been involved with the Dutch settlement of New York. Apparently these Sellars boys were fluent in both

German and English - does not sound to me like the father or his three brothers

 would have had enough time to become fluent in English. It is just a thought.

Hope this answers some questions for you ....if you think of more just ask. Will return to Capitola next week and will make a rigorous search for the records I have promised.

Thank you, Harold Rogers 4655 Emerald Street, Capitola, Ca. 95010 11-21-2004.

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nov 23, 2004

HAROLD, thank you.

some Peter Sellers info =

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers2/peter1755.htm

 

 

BUT, I don't believe any links to NY.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellerfamily/ny.htm

which has NO Older files

 

started a file on VALLEYFORGE = we  need others to add info

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers2/valleyforge.htm

 

THESE SELLERS families should ALL be linked to later counties, etc.

 

AND Rockingham Co, VA could have NY info? , But, if we didn't stay or own land in NY, may Not show.

 

thanks for sharing. Keep in touch.

marie, iowa

DEC 2004

Field notes of December 08, 2004

L.D.S. Family History Center

Notes regarding Sellars/Bohannon Family

Mostly Census Records

 

 

Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon, daughter of David Sellars

Saturday June 12th, 1880 Census taken in Colusa, California  Freshwater District 16

 

Mary Bohannon 46 TN. {1834}

Price Bohannon 13 Ca. {1867}

Hattie Bohannon 10 Ca.{1870}

Cornelius Bohannon 5 Ca.  {1875}

 

Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon, daughter of David Sellars

1900 Census taken in Kimshew, Butte, California

 

Mary Bohannon 66 Tn.  {1834} Father VA  Mother VA

Emily  Bohannon  32  Ca {1868} daughter  Father Tn  Mother Tn {Actual birth day was May 14, l865}

Geraldine Bohannon 3 Ca {September 1897} grand-daughter Father Ca  Mother Ca

 

Gerald Bohannon,  eleventh child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1910 Census of Iowa, Clinton, Dewitt Dist 22 at Washington Street

 

Gerald L. Bohannon 38 {1868} born Ca. Father Tn Mother Tn. Minister

Oral D. Bohannon 22 born Ill  Father born Ill  Mother born Ill.

Francis Belle Bohannon  dau. 3 {1907} born Iowa Father Ca.  Mother Ill

Richard S. son  1  born Iowa  Father born Ca. Mother born Ill.

 

Gerald Bohannon, eleventh child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1930 Census for Illinois, Cook County, Chicago Dist. 1597 @ 1218 North Dearborn Street

Gerald Bohannon, lodger, 63 {1867} born Calif  Father Ga mother Tn.

Note: Living under the household of Charles Baker and his wife, Julia Baker. Charles was a leather cutter for a shoe factory and his wife was the proprietor of a boarding house where Gerlad Bohannon was lodging in 1930.

 

 

Lidia B. “Liddie” Bohannon {Thiel}, first born of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars {Bohannon}. Note: Unable to find her in the 1910 Census.

1900 Census in Alameda County, Oakland at Shattuck Ave near Fairwview Street.

 

J. A. Downer born March 1839 NJ  Father NY  mother NY

Lydia B. Bohannon {Downer} born August 1850 Mo.  Wife,   Father born Ga  Mother born Tn.

William W. Downer November 1875 Ca. son  Father born NJ  mother born MO

Lewis C. Downer  born April 1880  Ca. son  Father born NJ  mother born Mo

Adrian A. Thiel born August 1879  Ca. Boarder  father born Germany  Mother born Nevada Note: Adrian was also a nephew to Lydia through her sister Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon. Adrian’s sister was Gretchen Thiel{Nelson}.

 

Mary La Bonta Bohannon {Thiel}, third child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars,  Bohannon.

1880 Census taken in Chico, Butte, California District 1 at 245 Sycamore Street.

 

August L. Thiel 37 Calif. {1843} News Orater

Mary L.{Bohannon} Thiel 27  {1853} Tx  Father Tn  Mother Mo {She was born in La Bonta Creek in the Wyoming Territory, not Texas}.

Francis L. Thiel  6  Calif. {1874} son

Adrian A. Thiel 11/12  Calif. Born August 1879

Margaret Bohannon 15 Ca {1865}

 

Mary La Bonta Bohannon, third child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon.

1910 Census in Alameda, Oakland Twp., District 52 on Sacramento Street.

 

Mary L. Bohannon 55  {1855} head of household  born Wyoming Father Tn  mother TN

Francis L.{name was not llegible, he was probably Francis L. Thiel} 35 {1875} Ca. father born Germany, Bavaria and Mother born Wyoming.

August A. Thiel 29 {1881} Calif.  Father born Germany  Mother born  Wyoming

Margaret {Gretchen Thiel} Nelson  dau. 27 {1883} Calif. Father born Germany Mother born Wyoming

Nelson, Oscar A. son-in-law  27 {1883} Illinois  Father born Sweden  Mother born Sweden

Mary A. Bohannon  mother  75  {1835}  Tn  Father born Va mother born Va

 

Wm. C. Bohannon, fourth child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon

1900 Census for Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, Ward 34 on Ingleside Avenue

 

Wm. C. Bohannon born May 1857 Ca. Father Mo  Mother born Mo.

Anna Bohannon wife  born August 1864 Illinois  Father born Ireland  Mother born Ireland

Marie Bohannon  born August 1885  Illinois  Father born California  Mother born Illinois

Helen Bohannon born August 1887  Missouri  Father born California Mother born in Illinois

 

David Eugene Bohannon, fifth child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1880 Census taken in Cascade, Tehama, California listed under the household of Anthony Jones

 

David Eugene Bohannon 22 Ca {1858} Calif. Father Ga  Mother Tn.  Telegraph Operator

 

George Bohannon, Sixth child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon

1910 Census for Tres Pinos Twp., San Benito, California

 

George Bohannon, boarder  49, born Calif  Father Tn  Mother Tn

 

Henry Bohannon, Seventh child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1900 Census taken in Butte County, California

 

Henry Bohannon 37  born Aug 1862  Ca. Father Tn  Mother Tn

Sarah Jane Bohannon  born June 1874  Ca. Father Ind  Mother Ind.

Wm. H. Bohannon  born Sept. 1893  Ca. Father Ca. Mother Ca.

Laura Bohannon  born Sept. 1895  Ca. Father born Ca. Mother born Ca.

 

Henry {Jefferson} Bohannon, Seventh child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1920 Census for Butte Co, Chico, California

Henry J. Bohannon 56 {1864 Note: actual date was 8-25-1862}Calif.

Sarah, wife 45 {1875} Ca. Father Ind. Mother Ind.

William H. Bohannon 26 {1894} Ca.

Laura Bohannon 24 {1896} Ca.

Ethel  M. Bohannon 19 {1901}

 

Henry  J. {Jefferson} Bohannon, Seventh child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars Bohannon

1930 Census for Alameda County, Oakland, California District 52

 

Henry J. Bohannon 67 {1863} born  Ca. Father Ky Mother Mo {This isn’t accurate}

Sarah J.Bohannon  55 {1875} Ca. Father Ind  Mother Ind.

Laura M. Bohannon 34 {1896} Ca. Father Ca. Mother Ca.

 

Cornelius Bohannon, Sixteenth child of Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon

1920 Census for San Diego, California  Prospect Street

 

Cornelius Bohannon 45 {1875} Ca  Father Mo  Mother Tn

Iren R. Bohannon wife, 30 {1890} Illinois  FatherIre  Mother France

Evelyn Mae Bohannon  dau, 3 9/12 {1916} Ca. Father Ca Mother Ill.

Margaret E. Bohannon dau.  1 10/12 {1919} Ca. Father born Calif Mother Ill.

 

 

Another woman working on the Jeremiah M. and Mary Adaline Sellars, Bohannon genealogy is:

 

Marilynn Bohannon Stark

1245 SW Upland Drive

Portland, Oregon 97221

 

Note: I think I will contact her as her information is scanty and inaccurate. She was an Ancestral File submitter for the LDS. Her address may not be current.

 

 

Mears Genealogy  {Found in the PAF LDS Files}

Margaret Barnes Mears was the first wife of David Sellars

 

Bartholomew Meares

Born 1605 England

Died 1692 Virginia

md. Mary _____ d. 4-3-1705 Accomack, Va.

Child:

John Mears

Born 1675 Accomack, Virginia

Died August 17, 1745 Accomack, Virginia

md. Margaret Garrison

Child:

 

Mark Mears

md. Elizabeth Van Pelt

child:

 

Joel Mears

Born May 2nd, 1754 North Carolina

Died December 21, 1835  Warren, Tx.

md. Sept. 30, 1827 in Warren, Tn. To

        Margaret Barnhill Estes

Child:

 

Wm. T. Mears

Born 1780 Virginia

Died 1856 Woodbury, Cannon, Tn.

md. 1803 Mary Polly Barnes

child:

Margaret Barnes Mears {Sellars} {some family members write Mears as Meyers}

Born January 29, 2004

Married David Sellars on February 12, 1824 in Washington County, Tennessee

This couple had five children…. See Sellars Genealogy.

David Sellars had two additional wives, Nancy Garber and Sarah Morris and had children through each of his three wives. Complete charts available.

 

Note: The submitters of the information regarding the above Mears lineage was provided by the following individuals {e-mail addresses included}:

Douglas Barnes     dbarn2u@earthlink.net   1-29-2004

 

Cindy Cantrell Mears  cindy_lou_143@yahoo.com  12-30-2002

 

Leo. L. Thompson  caverllt@yahoo.com  12-03-2004

Dec 2004

Hi Marie,

12-11-2004

Rogerscap@aol.com

 

Here is a photo of my great great grandmother, Catherine Emiline Sellars {Miller},  daughter of David Sellars and Nancy Garber. Catherine was born May 25th, l841 in Carter County, Tennessee.

 

I am going through a trunk load of photo albums and so far have only found a zerox copy of David Sellars picture. Did stumble upon something of John Eason Sellars born June 3rd, l831. In his own handwriting are the details of a hunting expedition in an old Sellars ledger sent to me 27 years ago by William Leroy "Roy" Sellars born January 31st, l884 in California. Roy was the son of Charles Weber Sellars but when Roy's father died, Roy was adopted by his uncle Michael Allen Garber Sellars, a full brother of  Catherine Emiline Sellars {Miller}, a son of David and Nancy Garber Sellars.

In his letter to me dated April 20th, l977 from Langley, Washington ......... Roy stated he didn't remember any thing about his grandparents.......he would have been six when his grandfather, David Sellars passed away. He was able to recount for me how the death of his father, Charles Weber Sellars came about. "He worked for some company in San Jose as a Machinist or a Machinist helper. They had a bad fire in the shop. There was a railroad track along side the building, my father was helping tofight the fire and the track was all wet. My father fell and broke his hip on the steel rail. After a lot of surgery....infection and gangrene set in and finally caused his death. This occured somewhere about the time that I was born."

 

In a letter written at the time Charles Weber Sellars was dying, and I want to add that Charles lingering death must have been just horrible ....the letter is one of the most tragic accountings, the letter became so graphic at one point that some family members had cut out from that letter parts of the painful and offensive language used many years ago.

 

You will see that letter and many others when I get the transcriptions re-typed on to the computer base.

Please let me know if the photo attachment went through fine. Just got the scanner up and running today. Need to get feed back from you .......if the image is making it to the destination and whether you are able to open the attachment. Please describe the size dimensions of Catherine's  photo also.

 

I was at LDS Family history center today .....one family member is asking for a gedcom file and I didn't know what that was. The LDS Family history center has been very helpful in showing me how to get these technical things done. Apparently some computers can not open all attachments and he needed it in a gedcom format........ok,,,,,,,,

 

Also found some people, about six I think that are working on James Madison Sellars {First born of David Sellars and Margaret Barnes Mears}. They seem to be completely oblivious to the rest of the Sellars family .....they are definitely our people. It will be fun to contact all six of them. I will get back to you on what I find.

 

Gotta go,

 

Hal Rogers

 

Dec 2004

Hi Marie,

 

  Today I sent David Sellars'  picture to  Nora Tocus, great grand daughter of Mary Adaline Sellars {Bohannon}, daughter of David Sellars. 

  Since it is Christmas time I thought I would send the same message to you.

 

 Our ancestor, David Sellars, was born July 17th, 1798 in Rockingham County, Virginia.

Through David's three wives he had fourteen children and leaves many descendants all across this land of America. Researchers today believe that David's father, Peter Sellars........and his three brothers....Johannes, Adam and Michael Sellars {all the sons of Heinrich Zeller who arrived in New York in l738} .....were with  General George Washington on that terrible Winter of l778.

 These men were the true hero's that made this country of the United States of America a reality. They endured the worst kind of cold as they hunkered down with inadequate clothing and even shoes for their blood soaked freezing feet.....some wrapped only in white linen rags.

  These Americans crossed over the Potomac River from their encampment at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania....over to where the German speaking Hessians were encamped in Trenton, New Jersey early on the Christmas morning of December 25th, l778. This happened 226 years ago this Christmas.

  The Americans surprised the German Hessian's,  paid fighting mercenaries of the British army,...the Hessians had been celebrating their own Christmas just hours before the Americans invaded. The Hessians, on the New Jersey side of the river, never expected a surprise attack on Christmas day, and the Hessians had been partying hardy the night before.

  George Washington needed the help of his interpreters.....people who had command of the German language....to handle the logistics of a capture. The Sellars boys, fluent in German, ....and only one generation-span from the Netherlands homeland......the Sellars family having arrived in New York in l738......walked right into the pages of our most celebrated American history.

 All of us living descendants of the Sellars family members.....in a way.....were there in Valley Forge with those Sellars boys in the Winter of l778.....we carry their DNA.....their blood.....with us to this day !!!!  It was this very same blood and DNA  coursing through our veins today ......that coursed so many years ago when the Sellars boys were inspired to do the thank-less, but courageous deeds that brought about a new American government.

 It is nice to know where your very essence used to be hundreds of years ago.....and what that very essence......was doing at that time.....don't you think ?

 

 

Merry Christmas Marie,

 

 

Yours,

Hal Rogers

12-11-2004 

 

JOHN, thank you.

pointing out corrections, etc, are MUCH NEEDED and WANTED.

They CONTRIBUTE to our SELLERS sources/documents.

 

SHOW/TELL me what you are explaining.  =  very plain.

Thank you and Happy Holidays to you. 

marie, iowa

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: John Merz [mailto:hessian@sympatico.ca]

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:42 PM

To: marie sellers hollinger; Rogerscap@aol.com

Subject: Re: PML Search Result matching hessians OR hessian

 

 

Sorry, re-reading it, you are out 2 years and a day.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Merz" <hessian@sympatico.ca>

To: "marie sellers hollinger" <mari@netins.net>; <Rogerscap@aol.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:39 PM

Subject: Re: PML Search Result matching hessians OR hessian

 

 

 I really don't want to disturb your holiday spirit,> but your dates re: Trenton are incorrect.> Out by a year and a day : John Merz have a nice Christmas.

 

John Merz is absolutely correct. The Hessians were defeated in Trenton, New Jersey, in the year of l776 and the Brits were soundly defeated at the Battle of Monmouth, New Jersey in the year of 1778. I wish I would have paid more attention to my history teachers in school. Just didn't think I would ever need to use that kind of information. Had our family known more about their pivotal role in American history I might have paid more attention when I was in school. Thank you for the refresher. No doubt the Sellars played a larger role in the New Jersey conflicts......all the more opportunity for the Sellars to become acquainted with the Armentrout Family.Hope there are others out there who will give this family some more feedback....we can use all the helpful advice people will share. Amazing how quickly people respond to the mistakes but I love it !!!!!   Thanks again..........

 

Hal

==========

 

=

From: Hal Rogers at Rogerscap@aol.com

to: Marie Hollinger at mari@netins.net

 

Hello Marie,

Thanks for keeping me in the news loop.......

 

This is great !!!  Just the kind of response we need from Sellars/Sellers/Zeller family members. I will be mulling over for awhile this last e-mail dated 12-13-2004 you sent me from Michael Sellers......I contacted MSellers@acresgaming.com when I was in Stockton on 11-24-2004 having only a few  records in front of me. I had found Michael Sellers with an e-mail address of  mikeamber@lvcm.com { now obsolete}.... I see it has been changed to Mikeamber@cox.net }. This Michael was searching for the old Barnes Family cemetery in Washington County, Tennessee. Did he ever find it.....anyone know ? And speaking of cemeteries......Russell Gibson in the Genforum for Sellers in Rockingham County, Virginia says that Peter and Margaret Sellers were buried in the Steven's Cemetery in what is today Johnson City, Washington County, Tennessee. Anyone know anything about that cemetery....are the graves marked?

 I have sent Mike Sellers follow-up  e-mails on 12-9 and a picture of David Sellars on 12-12.  I am glad to get Mike's feedback any way Mike chooses to deliver it. Let me clear up the DNA comment for you. When I spoke of DNA I wasn't speaking about a DNA test that has been performed. I was simply pointing out that our genetic material.....the essence of who we are.......and who those Sellars boys were........is one and the same !!!!

That's all.....no tests......that's why I had to laugh when you asked about a DNA test. Now that Michael has taken the matter seriously......I have to admit.......it could be done.....and we do know exactly where David Sellars is buried don't we? Would love to compare his DNA with that of Michael's....not sure what the logistics of having our own DNA checked with Michael's....do not know enough about it. This discussion, there is no debate going on here,...... we are all having at present.... is a necessary exercise if this Sellars family is going to extract the facts as everyone knows them.....not just a few of us sleuths. I am glad to enter the "discussion room" at his time. I have not been doing genealogy for years and got along just find without a computer until a few months ago. Had no idea how powerful a tool the computer has become for genealogy purposes.

 I have got some feedback from the side of the Sellars family claiming that Margaret Sellers {Stevens} is the daughter of Peter and Catherine Armentrout {Sellars}. Some of the e-mail address sites for this side of the family have turned out obsolete {and they were open accounts just months ago} but I will provide you with an inventory so you can better track the discussion:

I did hear back from Mary Burnett at mnburnett@sbcglobal.net . Mary Burnett says "The name of Thomas's wife, Margaret Sellers was given to me over 30 years ago by a Stephen's cousin who has since passed away. She had the name on a group sheet of Henry Stephen/s children. She wasn't researching the Sellers line. Where she got the name from I do not know."

Some of these Stephen's descendants are linking Margaret Sellers as the daughter of Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellers........but not all of them. Mary Burnett has not used the linkage to Peter Sellers for her Margaret Sellers.

 

Am still waiting for replies from other Margaret Sellers descendants including

1) annette foster@sealedair.com {Annette now has a picture of David Sellars

2)Cindy Cantrell Mears cindy_lou_143@yahoo.com; See notes in # 16 below  

3)Chris Alexander {was located at marbles@sbcglobal.net address now obsolete}

4) Carl Wilson at Carl Wilson_va@earthlink.net  {sent a request to have his provider drop the block}

5) James Palmer at jpal@icansurf.net {His address is now obsolete....anyone know how to reach him?}

6) Charles Allen at callen2900@aol.com 

7) Leo L. Thompson at caverlit@yahoo.com {address obsolete....anyone still in touch with Leo ?}

8)Gerald Hankins at gerald.h.johnston@cox.net {his address was active on 12-08-2004}; Bruce Wilson at bforibook@aol.com {address obsolete ....let us know if someone has a new e-mail}

9) Susanne Forte at Sforte3@cs.com {This address was from Nov 2001 and is now obsolete.....I might add that her ancestry.com submittal includes Peter as the father of Maragaret Sellers}

10) Mr. Stevens @ stevens@htcomp.net . I have sent Mr. Steven's three e-mails and he is excited about the discussion and will be sharing his data with the family shortly he says. This was interesting....he has Margaret Sellers born in Washington County, Tennesse in l787 and having died 1847 in Arkansas. Several in this clan are tracing back to Peter Van Schuler (Sellers) and Catherine Armentrout....taking the family back to Tjerks Jansz and his wife Styntie Doudes....again check out Ancestry.com for more details. They are indeed hooking up to our family of David Sellars. They even list James "Mattison" Sellers born February 12, l824 Washington Copunty, Tennessee ......James Madison Sellars was the oldest son of David Sellars. This Sellers line, according to the notes I copied from Ancestry.com have their roots in Emmen Drenthe, Netherlands and Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam, Holland. One of them lists  two children for Pieter Tjerks Van Schuyler and Catherine Armentrout....the submittal says the children were David Sellers and Margaret Sellers....check it out !}  

11)Another Zeller family lists Johan "David" Zeller born 1719 Livingstone, Monroe, "NEW YORK"  and dying in Tulpehocken, Berks, Pa in l810. His children included Margaret Zeller.Anna, Frantz, Anna and John Peter Zeller....this Zeller family used to go by the name of De Sellaire.

Of course the major player in all this is: 

12) Marie in Iowa who has kept the discussion alive for all these years at the web site of http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family and

13) I, Hal Rogers, third great grandson of David Sellars, have been trying to get the matter of David Sellars parents straightened out..... once and for all..... and my e-mail address is Rogerscap@aol.com. I am trying to encourage everyone I can to get involved in this discussion now !!! Do it now while everyone is coming to the table all at once !!!!!

14) Another site is http://www.geneanet.org/  and all of the Gen forums for the states of Tennessee, New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania for Sellars family. Jump on board wherever you like and sound off.....

15) Nora  at Ectocus@rcn.com   is a direct descendant of Mary Adaline Sellars {Bohannon}, the daughter of David Sellars and is gathering data for that side of the family at present.That branch of the family comes from David's first wife, Margaret Barnes Mears who was born sometime between 1800-1810 in Virginia. David Sellars was married to her on February 12th, l824 in Washington County, Tennessee. Margaret Barnes Mears {Sellars} died on February 28th, l835 in Washington County, Tennessee. Definitely would like to have the Mears family join into the ongoing discussion.

16) Web site http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/  notes a connection with the Arkansas and Tennessee Mears families 

17) Leanne Snyder at mlsnyder@swbell.net {address now obsolete}....would like to find her too !!!.....Leanne  was last found to be working on the third wife of David Sellars....her name was Sarah Morris born around 1813 in Tennessee and married to David Sellars on April 20th, l845 in Carter County, Tennessee. Sarah Morris (Sellars)  and family headed for California in 1849 but were  held over in Mercer County, Missouri until 1853 when they finally made it over the Oregon Trail to California.

18) Judy White was e-mailed regarding the work she was performing on the Sellars line....she has the Sellars family starting out for California from Tennessee in 1850.

19) Douglas Barnes at dbarn2u@earthlink.net {address obsolete} was covering in Jan of 2004 the family of Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellers through their son David Sellers and Margaret Barnes "Meyers" Sellers. From David Sellars they trace the line to their son, James "Mattison" Sellers, born December 5th, l824 and died April 22nd, l920. This is our family member and the tree that they have put together is what this discussion is all about ....anyone know where Douglas Barnes can be e-mailed today ? Please do not tell me heaven !!!!! 

20) I am following a hunch that the EASON family might have some data on the Sellars family and will get back to you what I find out from Charlene......David's third child through Margaret Barnes Mears {Sellars} was a son named John Eason Sellars born June 3rd, l831 in Washington County, Tennessee. 

21) TJ Barrans at TJBarrans is following the line of John Peter Zeller and TJ expresses his concern on Ancestry.com about people plagiarizing his data....be advised.

22) dspotten@yahoo.com is following the line of John Peter Zeller, also,  and I am waiting for his reply. I sent him a picture of David Sellars.

 

Hope this covers most of the bases at present and I will respond to the "discussion" with

Michael Sellers shortly.

 

Yours,

 

Hal Rogers

12-13-2004

 

Hi all,

 

I've been lurking and reading with great interest the latest discussion

about David Sellers/Sellars and his ancestry.  He has long been an interest

of mine since the theory arose that his father was possibly Peter Sellers,

the son of Heinrich Zeller.  I thank everyone for continually sending their

messages to the list for all of us to read and follow with great interest.

 

As I descend directly from Heinrich Zeller (as a 6th Great Grandson),

researching any and all of his possible offspring has been of great

interest.  Peter, a 5th Great-Grand Uncle to me, has been of interest since

so little is known of him including a lack of a definitive birth date &

place, lack of knowledge about his wife's name, when and where he died, etc.

The recent discussion about David possibly being a son to Peter is of great

interest, and I'd like to try and add some info to the discussion that would

help all of us in trying to figure out the puzzle.  I don't presume to be an

expert in any shape or form, so I hope I don't come across that way.  I just

want to add some fodder to the discussion and hope it helps one way or the

other.

 

First, in an earlier message I see a reference to Peter's father, Heinrich,

arriving in New York in 1738.  From the research I've done, research done by

Mary Marie Koontz Arrington in her 1986 book, "Cradled by the Massanutten:

The Zeller-Sellers Family", and research done by Frank Sellers in his 1984

book, "A Preliminary Study of the Descendants of Heinrich Zeller," Heinrich

Zeller landed in Philadelphia, PA, on September 16, 1738, aboard the Queen

Elizabeth and not in NY.  Since nothing is known of Heinrich and family

between their arrival in PA in 1738 and their subsequent appearance in the

area south of Elkton in present-day Rockingham County, VA, in 1750, its

quite possible they were in New York instead of with other German Zellers in

PA.  However, no direct evidence that I know of has been found to place

Heinrich and family in New York.  Without direct evidence of Heinrich and

family being in New York, its difficult to place son Peter as being born

there circa 1739 and thus the ability to link Peter as a father to David

because Peter was born in New York is equally difficult.  The limited info I

have about Peter's birth place and year is a patch of guess-work that states

he was "probably born" in 1739 soon after the family's arrival in PA in

September 1738.  The assumption has always been that the 1739 place of birth

was in PA.  If we can find direct proof of his birth, whether in PA or NY,

then I think its a huge step in the right direction.

 

Second, if we tentatively accept Peter Sellers birth year of circa 1739,

then David Sellers/Sellars birth in Rockingham County in 1798 was at a late

stage for Peter.  It would be my contention that Catherine Armentrout was a

second or more wife for Peter.  We already know that Peter had a son, John

Sellers, by 1765 and possibly had another son, Peter Sellers, Jr., even

earlier with I presume his first wife.  After all, Peter, Jr. was already

married AND had a child, Catherine, by 1784.  Thus, if David Sellars was

indeed a son of Peter, Sr. and thus a grandson of Heinrich, then he would've

been younger than some of his father, Peter, Sr.'s, grandchildren!

 

Third, I'm somewhat skeptical of the reference to "David's father, Peter

Sellars........and his three brothers....Johannes, Adam and Michael Sellars

{all the sons of Heinrich Zeller who arrived in New York in l738} .....were

with General George Washington on that terrible Winter of l778" as

interpreters.  I leave open the possibility, but some information points

away from it as being fact.

Peter Sellers, John Sellers, and my 5 Great Grandfather, Adam Sellers,

presented receipts to the Rockingham County Court of 1780 and 1782 for

reimbursement for items given to the cause of the American Revolution.  To

wit:

 

Nov. 10, 1780 - Peter Sellers, for 5 bus. rye, at 2s.6d.

Nov. 14, 1780 - Peter Sellers, for 5 bus. corn, at 2s.

 

March 29, 1782:  Accounts were allowed for military supplies furnished, for

public service with teams, for horses lost in public service, etc., to the

following:  Adam Sellers

April 24, 1782:  Accounts were allowed for service, supplies furnished,

etc., during the Revolution, to the following persons:  Adam Sellers

 

May 30, 1782:  Revolutionary claims were allowed to:  John Sellers

 

Perhaps my assumptions are incorrect, but I view the claims for

reimbursement for items supplied during the American Revolution as some

proof that the three Sellers sons were at home during the War.  Its

difficult to make the jump that the three were acting as Washington's

interpreters in 1778 while then submitting claims 2-4 years later for items

they supplied from their farms during that same period of time.  Further,

there are no Revolutionary War service documents presently uncovered that

detail service for any of the 3 brothers.  The only link to the War for the

3 are the reimbursement claims filed in Rockingham County Court.

And, the Michael Sellers who does show as having Revolutionary War service

is not the Michael Sellers, son of Heinrich Zeller.  Michael Sellers, son of

Henrich Zeller, settled and lived in the Melrose area of Rockingham County,

Virginia.  The Michael Sellers who served in the Revolutionary War lived in

Woodstock, Shenandoah County, Virginia at the time the War began.  His wife,

Catherine Dillman, testified at a War Pension hearing that Michael "was in

Woodstock, in Shenandoah County, VA, when the war broke and it was here he

enlisted".  Thus, there were at least two Michael Sellers living in Virginia

at the time the work broke out, and Michael Sellers, son of Heinrich, did

not serve in the War itself according to Revolutionary War documents and

records.

 

As a result, I don't know of any evidence that supports any of Heinrich

Zeller's sons serving an active role in the War.  And, I believe this also

dims the light on any of them being interpreter's for Washington in New

Jersey on Christmas of 1778.

 

I apologize for the negative sound of the message towards the possibility of

David being a son of Peter and thus a grandson of Heinrich, and for being so

negative towards the brothers serving as Interpreters for Washington.  But,

I think the data is important for us to not only keep in mind but also to

look at when trying to wade thru all of this 200+ years later while trying

to determine ancestry.  I don't put the data in this message out there as an

argument for or against any conclusion.  Its just there because we are going

to be forced to deal with it when trying to wade thru the info we have while

trying to solve the ancestral questions surrounding David Sellars.

Quite frankly, I'd be thrilled to learn or uncover data about the family

actually being in New York, and I'd be ecstatic for us to be able to

positively identify that David's father, Peter Sellers, was indeed

Heinrich's grandson.  But, remembering that most of Heinrich Zeller's

post-1750 Rockingham County, VA, neighbors were from the Tulpehocken area of

PA, I think we're going to find a link for him from NY exceptionally

difficult to find.

 

I'd love to see this discussion continue and I look forward to sharing and

debating data as its presented.  Hopefully, together we can reach a

definitive conclusion that will benefit us all.

 

Maybe if one of these days I get off the wallet and dole out the bucks to do

the DNA test, we can show today whether we share Zeller/Sellers ancestors of

yesteryear!

 

 

Michael Sellers

Mike and Amber Sellers [mikeamber@cox.net]

6 Great Grandson of Heinrich Zeller (via his son, Adam Sellers 1742-1821)

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "marie sellers hollinger" <mari@netins.net>

To: <SELLERS-L@rootsweb.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:05 PM

Subject: [SELLERS] RE: Remembering a Christmas had by the Sellars boys 226

years ago.......

 

 

> HAL, thank you.

> Do we have a SELLARS/SELLERS with a DNA test on this family?

> marie, iowa

>   -----Original Message-----

>   From: Rogerscap@aol.com [mailto:Rogerscap@aol.com]

>   Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:11 PM

>   To: mari@netins.net

Ø      Subject: Remembering a Christmas had by the Sellars boys 226 yearsago

From: Hal Rogers at Rogerscap@aol.com

to: Marie Hollinger at mari@netins.net

 

Hello Marie,

Thanks for keeping me in the news loop.......

 

This is great !!!  Just the kind of response we need from Sellars/Sellers/Zeller family members. I will be mulling over for awhile this last e-mail dated 12-13-2004 you sent me from Michael Sellers......I contacted MSellers@acresgaming.com when I was in Stockton on 11-24-2004 having only a few  records in front of me. I had found Michael Sellers with an e-mail address of  mikeamber@lvcm.com { now obsolete}.... I see it has been changed to Mikeamber@cox.net }. This Michael was searching for the old Barnes Family cemetery in Washington County, Tennessee. Did he ever find it.....anyone know ? And speaking of cemeteries......Russell Gibson in the Genforum for Sellers in Rockingham County, Virginia says that Peter and Margaret Sellers were buried in the Steven's Cemetery in what is today Johnson City, Washington County, Tennessee. Anyone know anything about that cemetery....are the graves marked?

 I have sent Mike Sellers follow-up  e-mails on 12-9 and a picture of David Sellars on 12-12.  I am glad to get Mike's feedback any way Mike chooses to deliver it. Let me clear up the DNA comment for you. When I spoke of DNA I wasn't speaking about a DNA test that has been performed. I was simply pointing out that our genetic material.....the essence of who we are.......and who those Sellars boys were........is one and the same !!!!

That's all.....no tests......that's why I had to laugh when you asked about a DNA test. Now that Michael has taken the matter seriously......I have to admit.......it could be done.....and we do know exactly where David Sellars is buried don't we? Would love to compare his DNA with that of Michael's....not sure what the logistics of having our own DNA checked with Michael's....do not know enough about it. This discussion, there is no debate going on here,...... we are all having at present.... is a necessary exercise if this Sellars family is going to extract the facts as everyone knows them.....not just a few of us sleuths. I am glad to enter the "discussion room" at his time. I have not been doing genealogy for years and got along just find without a computer until a few months ago. Had no idea how powerful a tool the computer has become for genealogy purposes.

 I have got some feedback from the side of the Sellars family claiming that Margaret Sellers {Stevens} is the daughter of Peter and Catherine Armentrout {Sellars}. Some of the e-mail address sites for this side of the family have turned out obsolete {and they were open accounts just months ago} but I will provide you with an inventory so you can better track the discussion:

I did hear back from Mary Burnett at mnburnett@sbcglobal.net . Mary Burnett says "The name of Thomas's wife, Margaret Sellers was given to me over 30 years ago by a Stephen's cousin who has since passed away. She had the name on a group sheet of Henry Stephen/s children. She wasn't researching the Sellers line. Where she got the name from I do not know."

Some of these Stephen's descendants are linking Margaret Sellers as the daughter of Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellers........but not all of them. Mary Burnett has not used the linkage to Peter Sellers for her Margaret Sellers.

 

Am still waiting for replies from other Margaret Sellers descendants including

1) annette foster@sealedair.com {Annette now has a picture of David Sellars

2)Cindy Cantrell Mears cindy_lou_143@yahoo.com; See notes in # 16 below  

3)Chris Alexander {was located at marbles@sbcglobal.net address now obsolete}

4) Carl Wilson at Carl Wilson_va@earthlink.net  {sent a request to have his provider drop the block}

5) James Palmer at jpal@icansurf.net {His address is now obsolete....anyone know how to reach him?}

6) Charles Allen at callen2900@aol.com 

7) Leo L. Thompson at caverlit@yahoo.com {address obsolete....anyone still in touch with Leo ?}

8)Gerald Hankins at gerald.h.johnston@cox.net {his address was active on 12-08-2004}; Bruce Wilson at bforibook@aol.com {address obsolete ....let us know if someone has a new e-mail}

9) Susanne Forte at Sforte3@cs.com {This address was from Nov 2001 and is now obsolete.....I might add that her ancestry.com submittal includes Peter as the father of Maragaret Sellers}

10) Mr. Stevens @ stevens@htcomp.net . I have sent Mr. Steven's three e-mails and he is excited about the discussion and will be sharing his data with the family shortly he says. This was interesting....he has Margaret Sellers born in Washington County, Tennesse in l787 and having died 1847 in Arkansas. Several in this clan are tracing back to Peter Van Schuler (Sellers) and Catherine Armentrout....taking the family back to Tjerks Jansz and his wife Styntie Doudes....again check out Ancestry.com for more details. They are indeed hooking up to our family of David Sellars. They even list James "Mattison" Sellers born February 12, l824 Washington Copunty, Tennessee ......James Madison Sellars was the oldest son of David Sellars. This Sellers line, according to the notes I copied from Ancestry.com have their roots in Emmen Drenthe, Netherlands and Nieuwe Kerk, Amsterdam, Holland. One of them lists  two children for Pieter Tjerks Van Schuyler and Catherine Armentrout....the submittal says the children were David Sellers and Margaret Sellers....check it out !}  

11)Another Zeller family lists Johan "David" Zeller born 1719 Livingstone, Monroe, "NEW YORK"  and dying in Tulpehocken, Berks, Pa in l810. His children included Margaret Zeller.Anna, Frantz, Anna and John Peter Zeller....this Zeller family used to go by the name of De Sellaire.

Of course the major player in all this is: 

12) Marie in Iowa who has kept the discussion alive for all these years at the web site of http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family and

13) I, Hal Rogers, third great grandson of David Sellars, have been trying to get the matter of David Sellars parents straightened out..... once and for all..... and my e-mail address is Rogerscap@aol.com. I am trying to encourage everyone I can to get involved in this discussion now !!! Do it now while everyone is coming to the table all at once !!!!!

14) Another site is http://www.geneanet.org/  and all of the Gen forums for the states of Tennessee, New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania for Sellars family. Jump on board wherever you like and sound off.....

15) Nora  at Ectocus@rcn.com   is a direct descendant of Mary Adaline Sellars {Bohannon}, the daughter of David Sellars and is gathering data for that side of the family at present.That branch of the family comes from David's first wife, Margaret Barnes Mears who was born sometime between 1800-1810 in Virginia. David Sellars was married to her on February 12th, l824 in Washington County, Tennessee. Margaret Barnes Mears {Sellars} died on February 28th, l835 in Washington County, Tennessee. Definitely would like to have the Mears family join into the ongoing discussion.

16) Web site http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/  notes a connection with the Arkansas and Tennessee Mears families 

17) Leanne Snyder at mlsnyder@swbell.net {address now obsolete}....would like to find her too !!!.....Leanne  was last found to be working on the third wife of David Sellars....her name was Sarah Morris born around 1813 in Tennessee and married to David Sellars on April 20th, l845 in Carter County, Tennessee. Sarah Morris (Sellars)  and family headed for California in 1849 but were  held over in Mercer County, Missouri until 1853 when they finally made it over the Oregon Trail to California.

18) Judy White was e-mailed regarding the work she was performing on the Sellars line....she has the Sellars family starting out for California from Tennessee in 1850.

19) Douglas Barnes at dbarn2u@earthlink.net {address obsolete} was covering in Jan of 2004 the family of Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellers through their son David Sellers and Margaret Barnes "Meyers" Sellers. From David Sellars they trace the line to their son, James "Mattison" Sellers, born December 5th, l824 and died April 22nd, l920. This is our family member and the tree that they have put together is what this discussion is all about ....anyone know where Douglas Barnes can be e-mailed today ? Please do not tell me heaven !!!!! 

20) I am following a hunch that the EASON family might have some data on the Sellars family and will get back to you what I find out from Charlene......David's third child through Margaret Barnes Mears {Sellars} was a son named John Eason Sellars born June 3rd, l831 in Washington County, Tennessee. 

21) TJ Barrans at TJBarrans is following the line of John Peter Zeller and TJ expresses his concern on Ancestry.com about people plagiarizing his data....be advised.

22) dspotten@yahoo.com is following the line of John Peter Zeller, also,  and I am waiting for his reply. I sent him a picture of David Sellars.

 

Hope this covers most of the bases at present and I will respond to the "discussion" with

Michael Sellers shortly.

 

Yours,

 

Hal Rogers

12-13-2004

dec 13, 2004

HAL,

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family = WHERE anyone can collect

DOCUMENTS and do NOT have to SHARE with us.

 

I would suggest JUST using YOUR page or address for info.=

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers2/haroldrogers.htm

 

or if too much info on there, we can make a page 2 for just info YOU want

published.

 

Any letters sent to SELLERS GROUP DISCUSSION =SELLERS-L@rootsweb.com

will be Forwarded to SELLERS group = even if not member

or info sent to YOU can be forwarded to me or group.

 

ANY letters from

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=an&p=surnames.sellers

(this used to be the old Rootsweb forum)

are automatically forwarded to our SELLERS members, so All can respone and

share info.

I kinda think this is where your INFO should be posted.

SELLERS that are Not discussion group members May read these messages. And

they are forwarded on to the SELLERS who share Documents.

 

ANY letters from http://genforum.genealogy.com/sellers/ are NOT

automatically forwarded to us, BUT, you have copy of info and responses.

 

I am Not familiar with Geneanet, But, I know that info is NOT shared here,

unless someone Sends it on to us.

 

WE Need Each SELLERS family to share their Connection with documents/sources

with us.

 

PLEASE understand me.

Thanks,

marie, iowa

Marie,

 

1) Why do I get the feeling I am stepping on people's feet right now?

2) Thought I was helping all of us to find answers......I don't understand all the politics......

and I don't suppose I want to. Leave me out of the politics....who is sharing and who doesn't share....etc.

3) Any information I send you ,you are free to throw in the garbage if you want....I have no expectations of you to do anything you do not want to do. Post what you like....censor out what you want to censor out.

4) I am using my own page!  .....are you asking me not to direct people to your site.....a site that is open to the public?

5) A Sellers Group discussion can occur anywhere on any site Marie....the e-mails I send will include everything I hear....I think you know I share what I learn.

6) I am not concerned about membership rules with any site......period. I am not a member

and I am not a member to any sites....nor will I be.

7) When I feel the need to post....I am a big boy....I know what to do.

8) Genforum is accessible to all I just made a point of bringing that out in my e-mail to you....that's all.

9) It does not matter to me if geneanet or any other forum doesn't share with showcase or rootsweb or whatever......What I am trying to do is bring people together....not herd them into private corrals. The point here is that some people go into one site and that is where they stay......I will continue to go into as many of these sites as I can find.....locate people doing research on Sellers and try to make contact. Yes......I know people are holding back.....yes they plagiarize the postings and then have the audacity to ask everyone else not to plagiarize!!!!!

10) It might be warm and cozy in the rootsweb discussion group but I think it is not reasonable to suppose everyone is going to enter that site. There are too many independents out there who could care less about group discussions. They are good people who will share...I know many of them....but clanish circles are not really my bag either!

11) Marie....Please understand me.

Thanks,

Hal

==

HAL,

YOU have done a Good job of sharing your SELLERS info with letters to me and

I forwarded on to Sellers group.

 

I wanted YOU to know that 200/300 SELLERS members read the SELLERS pages I

sent you

 

That is the Best thing about Rootsweb/Ancestry.com now=

 they are read by many SELLERS that are Not members and forwarded on to our

Sellers members of rootsweb/connected to our SELLERS showcase web pages.

 

Genforum SELLERS doesn't auto send to our group , But, info will be read by

SELLERS and that is our goal.

 

ONLY a few will connect to your family, but, they are very knowledgeable on

these families.

with Documents shared by our members.

 

I am Very Proud of our SELLERS contributors (members or not)

 

THEY go into Each County/State where our SELLERS lived and share those

documents with us and this info is posted on their pages at Showcase

netins.net

 

YOU do NOT need to be a member = IF info comes thro those pages I sent you,

It is  read by Many SELLERS.

Trying to share a little experience.

 

YOU  could just  post info ALSO to the pages I sent?

 

Thanks for understanding.

marie, iowa

==

dec 14, 2004

James Sellars [jsellars@gulftel.com]

  Mr Rogers,

     In regards the SELLARS-EASON connection: My ggrandfather DAVID SELLARS

(1825-187?) had a sister JULIA VIRGINIA SELLARS who married Wm THOMAS EASON

on 27 Dec 1860 in Schley Co. Ga. . Some coincidence huh? Sincerely James

Richard Sellars (jsellars@Gulftel.com)

  ----- Original Message -----

  From: "marie sellers hollinger" <mari@netins.net>

  To: <SELLERS-L@rootsweb.com>

  Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:00 PM

  Subject: [SELLERS] FW: Hessians defeated in 1776 Trenton, NJ and the

British in 1778 at Monmouth,NJ

====

dec 14, 2004

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rogerscap@aol.com [mailto:Rogerscap@aol.com]

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 8:29 PM

To: mari@netins.net

Subject: Sellars-Eason Connection and the New York family of Sellars

 

 

Re: Sellars-Eason Pedigree connection in the 12-03-2004 e-mail from James

Richard Sellars.

 

I have seen James Richard Sellars family pedigree but I can not make the

connection to Tennessee. The siblings of Richard Sellars that James Richard

Sellars is speaking of....namely David and Julia Sellars ....were two of

about twelve childrfen. Their oldest sibling was born in l814 in North

Carolina as was the father Richard Sellars in l788. I tried looking at a

number of Eason families in Georgia for the birthdates of their elders in

the l880 census records .....but these Georgia born Easons were in Georgia

so long that everything comes up Georgia for a birthdate for just about

everyone in those census records.

 

Was looking for a Virginia or Tennessee parent connection.......Sorry James

but no luck....you will need to follow Richard Sellars back to the next

generation somehow for your answers.

 

I have found the John G. Eason family, and I believe it is the one I was

searching for. Found John G. Eason in Washington County, Tennessee near

Jonesborough....and at the correct time in 1830.  This John G. Eason was

born in Virginia in 1794 and he died in August of l837 in Virginia but he

was married in Tennessee to Ann Julia Deadrick on August 26th, l817 in

Davidson County Tennessee. Davidson County was formed in 1783 from

Washington County, Tennessee in 1783........ about nine counties due west of

where the Sellars were located in Greene County, Tennessee at the same time

period of l830. This John G. Eason had a daughter, Julia Eason that married

a William Lowry. That Eason line goes back to Samuel Eason born in l760 in

Washington County, Virginia {a border state and a border county to

Tennessee} which just happens to be right in the same neighborhood of where

the David Sellars family was living in both Washington and Carter Counties,

Tennessee. Only one county of separation between their homes. Did the Eason

and Sellars families appear as neighbors in the earlier Virginia census

records ?....it is only eight small county's south of Rockingham County,

Virginia.

 

Re: Remembering a Christmas had by the Sellars and Michael Sellars e-mail of

12-13-2004 and Marie Sellers Hollinger e-mail of 12-12-2004 I have a few

comments:

 

1) No DNA test performed that I know of ......and this will require big

bucks if it is to be done right. It is never cheap to dig up the dead but it

did prove the case for the descendants of Sally Hemmings, a special slave of

Thomas Jefferson....... didn't it ?

 

2) The birth of Peter Sellars in New York is merely an extension of the 1880

census material where David Sellars says his father was born in New

York.....likewise the New Jersey birth is just an extension exercise for

Catherine Margaret Armentrout Sellars and her birthplace.

 

The information written on the picture I have of David Sellars ....by

extension....is also being applied here to what we know of Peter's siblings.

Sometimes the names in genealogy

have to be applied to the data we have at hand....from there we see where it

can take us. I have always put the slightest of details into my pedigree

charts in order to find linkages where no one else ever thought to look

before.This is all I tried to do with the Remembering a Christmas had by the

Sellars boys 226 years ago ......this was kind of a Christmas Card to all

you from me....and the feedback is helping to re-define a new search area

for Peter Sellars.....the Armentrout family ........at least for me it is.

 

I don't want to hijack anyone's family away....we are talking

hypothetical......this is a way of doing research !  Heinrich Zeller may

very well not be the grandfather or for that matter the great grandfather of

David Sellars. Mary Marie Koontz Arrington didn't think so....the data

wasn't there..... although I had made contact with her to discuss my third

great grandfather David Sellars.....about all we could come up with was that

it needed more work....that David Sellars could be a related family....and

that was it. As time goes by it seems like it might be easier to prove that

David Sellars is not related to Heinrich ......rather than that he is

related. I would love to prove he isn't related so I can move on with my

David Sellars family once and for all. I have been pursuing another

possibility in New York for some time ......but it is too early at this time

to put that on anyone's table.

3) I did not say Heinrich Zeller landed in New York. I said he arrived in

New York because that would be necessary in order for Peter to be born in

New York. It is a methodology I use and that's all it is? I expressed to

Marie Hollinger in an e-mail that I thought it was cool to be able to put

the census data together with the information on the picture and the

theoretical

family of Zeller for David Sellars.

4) Talking about that twelve year time span  1738-1750 and no data for where

Heinrich Zeller is......that is a pretty large gap....I think we can do

better then that. I am suggesting we look more closely at New York..... I am

looking for evidence in New York....why must the assumption of Peter's birth

always have to be where Heinrich landed in September of 1738...... the

assumption has always seemed a bit anal retentive to me. Has this assumption

brought about any new discussion for years....? I am looking somewhere

else....David says look in New York ....so I am looking to New York.....and

maybe Heinrich Zeller was living there for a decade or more. OK ? Enough

said.

4) Does anyone know if Peter had a sister named Margaret Sellers born in

l787 ? Anyone want to take me in the right direction here ? There are a lot

of Sellars/Stevens descendants out there claiming that their Stevens

ancestors come from this daughter of Peter Sellars and Catherine Armentrout.

Could use some solid evidence for that if anyone can provide it. It would

take us again from Rockingham County, Virginia to Washington County,

Tennessee.

 

5) Does having the children and grand children of Heinrich Zeller ....close

in age.....give us any new direction......at this point I don't know what to

do with that methodology of Michael Sellers. Please explain the point you

were putting forward....how does that information translate into a research

objective ?

 

6) Yes, Michael ....like you I am skeptical about the reference

to...."David's father, Peter Sellars.....and his three

brothers.....Johannes, Adam and Michael Sellars....all the sons of Heinrich

Zeller...who arrived  {NOT LANDED} in New York......in 1738".

 

7) I disagree that reimbursement claims can make the case for the Peter

Sellars boys being home {in Virginia or Pennsylvania} during the

Revolutionary War. Are you supposing that during a time of National crisis

that there were no other families sacrificing themselves as well as carrying

out the chores on their respective farms. Just who do you think were

fighting this war......the rich and influential ? I like the popularist

tradition better. Sellars family members were most definitely doing what

their American counterparts were doing....making the ultimate sacrifice for

the beginning of a new American Dream. They did their chores and they did

the fighting.....no contradictions in that at all. Take a look at the War of

1812 ....the farmers of Ohio and Kentucky managed to fight that war as well

as plant and harvest !!!!

My ancestors were in that conflict as well.......our family lost Frederick

Jacoby on October 5th, l813 at Moravian Town in Ontario, Canada at the

Battle of Thames. These men were for the most part simple farmers that

rushed between the battlefields and their farms depending on what needed to

be accomplished in either area. Their lives were far more flexible than you

give them credit for. When someone wanted to be a captain they would often

be so eagar for the position that they would fight it out and beat each

other bloody to see which of them got to be the captain. Frederick Jacoby's

brother, Ralph Jacoby, was chosen for a captain. The blood smeared men who

were left standing became the Captains and the Lieutenants.

Sorry....I just do not accept your conclusions here at all about everyone in

the family having to stay put on some farms because of some receipts you

have found....talk about taking a leap !  No....they could easily have

worked their farms and spent the off seasons including the down-time of the

Winter months fighting the British and Hessians in New Jersey.....right

alongside all the rest of George Washington's volunteers.

8) Next, Rockingham County and Shenandoah Counties are neighboring

counties.....a distance of just a few feet for an entire county border. Were

there indeed two Michael Sellers.....I am just asking what proof do you

have.....is it really pivotal here ?

7) You are right that there has not been any evidence brought forward to

support the "methodology" being employed to make the case that Heinrich

Zeller's sons served an active role in the War. But a lack of records does

not prove a thing .......lost and destroyed records are a fact of life. You

can't take an absence of records and try to support a case of

no military service for the Sellars boys......it would be like saying

someone didn't graduate from school because they were not in school when the

school photo's were taken.

 

8) Has anyone tried looking for the Sellars connection in New York? I have

and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that David's parents were in fact

in New York. David Sellars told us in 1880 to look in New York for his

father.....David Sellars said to look in New Jersey for his mother. That is

where my focus will be.

 

See you all,

 

Hal Rogers

 

Dec 17, 2004

HAL,

 

YES, I did type SELLERS when I was explaining our site. Sorry. I usually

copy paste this and now I need to find where/how it happened.

YOU did NOT use that incorrect  page to get there. YOU may have went to your

page on sellers2 and linked back to sellerfamily?

 

The SELLERS web site = http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellerfamily/

 

THIS name was registered with Iowa Showcase netins.net Jan 14, 1997 and has

Never changed . We have added Sellers 2 pages to make more room and they

link back to sellerfamily .

 

Again, SORRY, hope this helps. marie, iowa

 

 

 

THIS is what I incorrectly sent to you =

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family = WHERE anyone can collect

DOCUMENTS and do NOT have to SHARE with us.

I would suggest JUST using YOUR page or address for info.=

 

http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers2/haroldrogers.htm

 

=============

 

 

 

  -----Original Message-----

  From: Rogerscap@aol.com [mailto:Rogerscap@aol.com]

  Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 3:32 PM

  To: mari@netins.net

  Subject: removing the "s" means that no one will find the site!

 

 

  Marie,

 

  I am disappointed......I never had a problem finding the site until you

removed the "s"

  from sellers......if I refer people to a site that doesn't exist....I

waste my time and theirs.....wanted to keep the pages open to all......I

know what the address used to be......you last sited it in an e-mail dated

12-13. It isn't right to take the data and keep it in your private

group.......too bad too......I was just getting started.

 

  Yours,

 

  Hal Rogers

 

Above my reply to Hal in his notes of dec 13, 2004 he has =

12) Marie in Iowa who has kept the discussion alive for all these years at the web site of http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family and

 

==

AND I may have copied/pasted from his message?

Best I can think of,

Marie, iowa

========

HAL, thanks.

 

YOUR original 1981 letter is posted on our PETER SELLERS 1755 PAGE

 

ALL SELLERS PAGES are available thro google and other search engines.

ALL Our  pages have the SHOWCASE name in them, I believe.

 

We do have inactive members who have shared info, but, do NOT read/receive

our discussion group letters, but check our pages.

AND their notes,info, documents are still on our pages.

 

I believe I found how I copied the ERROR in my message to you AND I should

have noticed or rechecked?

YOUR message to me that I responded to =

 

12) Marie in Iowa who has kept the discussion alive for all these years at

the web site of http://showcase.netins.net/web/sellers/family and

=

 

HAL, do what you think is best for your family research.

 

WE appreciate you sharing, But, we have a Long way to go and much to Prove !

AND it takes many of us, with Each family and child to share.

 

Good Nite,

marie, iowa

 

 

 

FROM: HAL ROGERS

Rogerscap@aol.com

 

12-17-2004

 

Hi Marie,

 

I never used the http access to the various Sellars Sellers web sites

........when I gained access to the site for the first time I had found the

1981 Sellars family statistics you had posted.......you know....the query

you have had posted out there for a long time regarding my

whereabouts......my capitola and Stockton locations.

 

 I stumbled into your site at the library when I was doing genealogy on the

google service.......It didn't matter what I typed in the google window

about any of the Sellars

Pedigree chart names from l981......the same Sellars sites opened again and

again.........I like google because it is the people's search

engine......... I need to have a site that people can depend on being there

when I send them to it....I also need to have that site open for everyone

........at all times......and I can see that now is the time to begin that

project........your members will still be able to locate the

findings.......I have always wanted that....the more we all know the

better........but I want for everyone to easily see the data........even if

they are not the sharing kind and they have publication agendas to protect.

 

I e-mailed with TJ BARANS about his plagiarism remark on his Ancestry.com

site and he explained to me that there are some unscrupulous researchers

taking his notes and using those notes as their own. Sounds like a man that

intends to publish ........I guess he feels he learned something the hard

way. I have no plans to publish the material I collect........people are

free to use the picture of David Sellars in their publications and with my

permission herein........I want it understood however that the image is the

property of my family and we do reserve the right to publish the image at

any time....being the original owners. The image has not been sold to anyone

......was released to the public by me with the intention that it can  be

used by anyone in the public....and no one now or in the future, outside of

my family, will be allowed to claim exclusive rights to this image of David

Sellars. The same holds true for the additional photo's, the many original

documents that have yet to be released. This is family property and it is

the intent of this Sellars family descendant that these records be shared by

all.

 

>From here on I will be doing my own postings on a few selected web sites

that you are already familiar with.........I can see that this is the way I

will attract the greatest number of independents........and what I seek is a

reliable site to collect up the newest

of researchers.....bringing new items from their attics.........and also a

site that will always be where I tell people it is......and easy to find

just by typing in a name or two.

Your http addresses are rediculously long and complicated to type and I am

tired of

the eye strain and inconsistency of it all. Nothing personal Marie.......You

work hard

and I am greatful for everything.......

 

Where do I intend to go from here ?......you deserve an answer to

that........Whenever

I post I list my e-mail address........anyone that needs to contact me has

that e-mail address..........no one needs to go through you or your

discussion group to talk independently with me. What I intend to do is put

my notes and future findings

into a more organized format for postings.

 

Marie.....you have mentioned several times to me the need for a "Sellars

Family Time-Line".........in order to structure our searches.....I

agree.....and you will see this in future postings........just check it out

on the google search engine once in awhile.....you will be seeing a lot of

new Sellars data that no one else has ever

seen.......I have been transcribing old letters written by the

Sellars/Miller's/Garber's

and the Bohannon's.

 

I recently obtained, what is to be my inheritance, a Sellars Bible that has

old letters from Tennessee carefully placed between the pages of this Bible

as well as a family tree. The transcriptions and Family tree, while very

interesting, do not reveal the parents of David Sellars. I said to my mom a

few months ago.....keep your fingers crossed.......this could be where we

find the answers we have been looking for.....I have been through all of it,

but alas the California Sellars Bible, that Catherine Sellars maintained at

the Salida ranch, is silent about the parents of David Sellars. It is

apparent that the family knew about them....it was discussed and someone

scribbled the notes about Valley Forge, Pa......George Washington and Valley

Forge, Pa. and David's father and three uncles. But clearly the notes were

scribbled long ago on this old picture {ca. 1890} of David Sellars by

perhaps his daughter Catherine, who may not have been able to remember the

details like the names of the father and three uncles..... Catherine may

have had a reflective moment back in 1914......just recalling the story

......which had probably been a Christmas story told every year by family

members for hundreds of years. The notes could have been scribbled by

David's daughter, Catherine, and the picture was probably a household

portrait kept at the Salida, Cailfornia ranch home located on Kiernan Road

near Modesto.

 

 My concern is and has always been that this information should be made

available to everyone. For this reason I need to safeguard the potential for

piracy of these documents from others. When I say piracy......I am refering

to those people who would take what I freely give and stake exclusive claims

.........for their own publication purposes. I intend to deal with that

nasty legal problem before I release any more documents or pictures. My own

posted notes will be available on google for everyone to use as they

please......."just google me ".....and look for David's picture there

also.....available to everyone......not just a select few.

 

I thought I would finish this out with one last revelation........David

Sellars parents are not buried at the Brush Creek Brethren Cemetery near

Limestone. I checked. The cemetery is beautiful and well maintained and is a

photographer's paradise in the Spring. I now have a picture of this

cemetery. It was first used for burials in l834 and Samuel Garbrer, the

preacher, did in fact help found the Brush Creek Brethren Church and

cemetery. I was disappointed that Nancy Garber Sellars was not buried

there.....really thought she would be intered there at Brush Creek. Stayed

up all night, ........... last night, ........ looking for Nancy Garber

{Sellars} gravesite. David Sellars parents are not at Knobb Creek Brethren

cemetery either. I checked.

 

l will be putting everything I can into checking the Tennessee cemetery

indexes to clues where the parents of David Sellars are buried by looking at

surname associations of family and friends. If their gravesites can be

found.......this seems to be as good a time as any to redouble the efforts.

Maybe the location can be discovered

before Sarah Broadbent's brother arrives in Johnson City, Tennessee in the

next five weeks.

 

I won't be bothering you with anything to post from this moment

on.......your members will easily find everything at their fingertips....as

will the independent researching non-members......their numbers are legion

and I have been getting about 98 % of my Sellars family sharing from the

independents. This is because I find these people myself and I initiate the

e-mails to them. Rest assured, if someone is searching a Sellars related to

David, I will be contacting them shortly..... Surprised at how little those

200-300 members of yours had to say, given that I have released my e-mail to

all of them in my notes. Responses have been coming from the people I

contacted on my own.....with only two exceptions.  It was troubling to me

when I started getting word from my contacts that no site existed where it

had existed before.......I see tonight.....that I can once again reach the

original Sellars site..........but that isn't good enough.......if the site

is not always there.....if it becomes a peek-a-boo site.......it will not

serve by purposes.

 

Yours,

 

Hal Rogers

Rogerscap@aol.com

12-17-2004

=

jan 2, 2005

 

SELLARS GENEALOGY NOTES & STATISTICS

Preparer : Hal Rogers

Located in micro-soft office word/folder/Sellars Pedigree Chart

01-02-2005 Rogerscap@aol.com

Rev. Level 1

 

 

 

 

 

   BIRTHS                                                              MARRIAGES                                                     DEATHS

 

Mr. Sellars                                                       ca.bef.1725 NY                                              ca.1744 New York                                New York or Va.

md.__________ (2+)

1) Peter Sellars {2+}See below                        ca.1745 NY                                                   ca.1785 Rockingham Co,Va.or NJ    07July1835 Knobb

                                                                                                                                                                                                        or Brush Creek Wa.C.Tn.

 

2) Margaret Sellers{Stevens}{4}             ca.1755 NY  md. Thomas Stevens {Thomas Stevens is a half brother to James Barnes, Jr. who appears to have

                                                                        been married to Margaret Sellers {Stevens} niece Catherine Sellars {Barnes}.

    The four children of Margaret and Thomas Stevens:

   1.Mary Jane Stevens

   2.Delila C. Stevens

   3.Henry Stevens

   4.Catherine E. Stevens {Carson}

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                                    BIRTH                                 MARRIAGE                DEATH               

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                         

Peter Sellars                                                                 ca.1745 NewYork                 ca.1785RockinghamCo.Va.or NJ.  07 Jul 1835

                                                                                                                     Died : Knobb or  Brush Creek area of WashingtonCo.Tn.

                                          

Catherine Margaret Armentrout ( 3+)                            ca.1765New Jersey                                      23 Nov 1839 Carter Co.Tn. near the

 Their three children:                                                                                                                                            small town of Wautauga.                              

1). Catherine Sellars {Barnes}

      md. James J. Barnes, Jr.

 

2). David Sellars                                                        17Jul 1798 Rockingham Co.Va                                                                12Feb1824 WashingtonCo.Tn 02Mar1891 SalidaCa b.OHC S.J.

  M1) Margaret Barnes Mears (5+)                                                           1800/10 Virginia                                                                28Feb1835 WashingtonCo.Tn.

  M2) Nancy Garber (3)                                                                            1810/20 Virginia                                                                28Oct1838 Washington Co.Tn.                                                                12May1844 *Carter Co.Tn.

  M3) Sarah Morris (6)                                                                             ca.1814 Tennessee                                                                20Apr1845 *Carter Co.Tn.     19Sep1884 SanJose,Ca.b.OH

 

3). Solomon Sellars                                                      ca.1810                                                ca.1827 Washington Co,Tn.

  md._________ (1+)                                                   ca.1805

  1.”daughter Sellars”                                                    ca.1828

 

 

   The five children from the First Marriage of David Sellars and Margaret Barnes Mears :

1) James Madison Sellars                                                                                 05Dec1824WashingtonCo.Tn.05Apr1846*WashingtonCo,Tn.Ca.1920 * Carter Co.Tn.

      md.  Kiturah “Catessa”Smith (7+)                                                      ca.1828WashingtonCo,Tn.                                                                                      After 1870 C.

Their 7 children:

1) Mary Adaline Sellars                                                                            ca.1847 Washington Co.Tn.                    after 1870 C.

2) Margaret A. Sellars {Stevens}                                                              Sep1850 Washington Co.Tn.                   after 1870 C.

3) Sarahfina Sellars {Ellis}                                                                        ca.1855 Washington Co.Tn.                    after 1870 C. md.1869

    md. John Ellis                                                                                                                                                       ca.1832 {They lived in Bristol, Tn. See note #12

4) David S. Sellars                                                                                    ca.1857 Washington Co.Tn.                    after 1870 C.

5) Andrew Jackson Sellars                                                                        ca.1860Washington Co.Tn.                     after 1870 C.

6) John M. Sellars                                                                                    ca.1863                                                    after 1870 C. 1936 Carter Co, Tn. { George Motter n Cemetery located outside

7) James Madison Sellars,Jr.                                                                     ca.1867 Washington Co.Tn.                    after 1870 C. of Elizabethon, Carter County, Tn.in a small town named

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Watauga off the Watauga Road. }

 

2) David Geo.Washington Sellars      28Jun1826 WashingtonCo.Tn.       ?                                                        In 1840C

 

 

3) John Eason Sellars                                                                          23Jun1831 WashingtonCo.Tn.ca.1898 Prosser,Washington                                 19Nov1914BentonCo,Prosser,Wa.

     Phoebe __________ (3)                                                                     {In 1860 Ca. C.}                                      after 1914        

 

4) Mary Adaline {Bohannon} (16)                                                      07May1834 WashingtonCo.Tn.26Jun1849MercerCo.Mo.Nr.Princeton                      22Nov1920SanDiegoCo.Coronado

                                                                                                                {In 1880C butte Co,CaChico}    Sunset View Cem.BerkeleyCa.AlamedaCo.Ca

    Jeremiah “Jerry” M. Bohannon                                                            ca.1826SevierCo.Tn.  Separated Nov.1877 Stannislaus Co.Ca.                                    18Dec.1878LosAngelos,Ca.  

Their 16 children:

1) Lydia “Liddie” Bohannon {Downer}                                                    23Aug1850 St.Louis,Mo.

2) Eliza Jane Bohannon                                                                           ca.1851 Missouri

3) Mary La Bonta Bohannon {Thiel 3+)                                                                                                                     21Jun1853 LaBontaCreek,WyomingTerrit. In 1880C.ButteCo.Chico,Ca.

4) William C. Bohannon                                                                          14May1856 Stockton,SanJoaquinCo.Ca.

5) David Eugene Bohannon                                                                      20Feb1858 Stockton,Ca.                                                                                          19Feb1943Alameda,Ca.

6) Jeremiah “George” Bohannon                                                              20Nov1860Stockton,Ca.WeberGrantRanch  See Note # 11                                                after1910 TresPinos,SanBenitoCo.Ca.

7) Henry Jefferson Bohannon                                                                  25Aug1862 Stockton,Ca                                                                                          09Jan1946Oakland,Ca

8) Robert L. Bohannon                                                                            12Jan1864 Stockton,Ca.WeberGrant Ranch res.1910-1930 C.Oroville,ButteCo.Ca.Big Bend Rd.

9) Margaret Emma “Emily”  {Bosch}                                                      14May1865 Stockton,Ca.WeberGrantRanch {In school 1880Cres.with sister Mary Thiel in Chico}

10) Price Bohannon                                                                                 10Jan1867 Stockton,Ca.WeberGrantRanch  {died at birth}

11) Gerald Lamoyne“Lee”Bohannon (3)                                                                                                                   10Jan1868 Stockton,Ca.                          03Ju1905 Illinois div1911-16 11Oct1935Chicago,CookCo.Ill.

12) Travis Bohannon                                                                               04Sep1868 Stockton,Ca.WeberGrantRanch                                                                Oct.1868Stockton,Ca.

13) Hattie Belle Bohannon {Wyberg}                                                      20Sep1870 Stockton,Ca.Weber Grant Ranch

14) Jean Bohannon                                                                                  date of birth unknown

15) Neil Bohannon                                                                                  date of birth unknown

16) Cornelius Bohannon                                                                          12Jun1875 Chico,ButteCo.Ca.

 

5)  “Daughter Sellars”                                                                      28Feb1835WashingtonCo,Tenn.        {In 1840C missing from 8-21-1850 Mo.C.} 

 

      The three children from the Second Marriage of David Sellars and Nancy Garber:

 

6) Abraham Nelson Williamson Sellars                                        24Sep1839 CarterCo.Tenn.didn’t marry                                                                03Dec1839 Carter Co.Tn.

7) Catherine Emiline Sellars {Miller}(16)                                    25May1841 Carter Co. Tenn.18Sep1858 Ripon, Calif.                                                        25Mar1914 Stockton,Ca.PV cem.

                                                                                                                                                                                 {Extensive family chart exists elsewhere in the Murphy-Miller Genealogy Notes & Statistics chart}

8) Michael Allen Garber Sellars (0)                                               09Mar1843 CarterCo.Tn.                                                                Dec1884 Seattle,Washington   17Aug1918 SanJose,Ca.

                                                                                                                {Michael married Emma Allison, the widow of his deceased brother Charles, adopt. his 2 children}

 

       The six children from the Third Marriage of David Sellars and Sarah Morris:

 

9) Landen Carter Hanes Sellars                                                      29Apr1846 Carter Co.Tenn.                    *1867 *Calif.                                                      15Jul 1877 San Jose, Ca OHC cem.

    Zenah __________ (4)                                                                        1843 Illinois

Their four children:

1) Frank Sellars (2) see Note # 9                                                              1867 California                                                                                                        Madera, California

2) Minna “Marion” F. Sellars                                                                   Sep1869

3) Roy Sellars                                          

4) Charles Sellars

 

10) William Castelion “Wads”Worth Sellars                             20Feb1848 Carter Co.Tn. bef.1900 md.&div.                                                                16Apr1922 Madera Co.Ca.{OHC}

       Flora Gibson (3+)                                                                               Illinois      {Rob E. Sellars b.1892 d.03Jun1894 San Jose,buried OHC with Wm…his father ?} 

Their three children:

1) Alonzo David Sellars (2 dau.)                                                               Jan1886 Fresno,California                                                                                       Madera Co.Ca.

2) Claude Monroe Sellars  (2)                                                                   Nov 1889 California                                                                                                Madera Co.Ca.

md.Lottie Mae Kelly

Their two children:

2A) Thelma Elizabeth Sellars {McAlexander}                                                                                 Res.Hayfork,Ca.1984

2B) Bernice Faye Sellars

3) Rob E. Sellars                                                                                       Oct1892 San Jose, Ca.                                                                                              03June1894 SanJose,Ca.{OHC}

11) Mahala’ Jane “Jennie” {Jones} (4)                                          30May1850 MercerCo.Mo. 07Nov1872 Stanislaus Co.Calif.                                   23Feb1923 ShastaCo.Redding,Ca.

                                                                 {In 1880 C. was living at 426 Marliers St.near 419 San Carlos St.SanJose,Ca.with her father David Sellars. Buried SanJose {OHC}

      Charles “Charley” B. Jones                                                                1841 Massachusetts

Their four children :

1) Sarah F. Jones                                                                                      ca.1874 San Jose, Ca.

2) Frank A. Jones                                                                                     ca.1879 San Jose, Ca

3) Edith A. Jones                                                                                     ca.1883 San Jose, Ca.

4) Charles “Warren” Jones                                                                       ca.1885 San Jose, Ca.

                                                                 {Charles W. Jones was living on Washington Ave,Santa Clatra 1900C.and 49 Broadway Av.Santa Clara 1920 C. with a family}

 

12) Margaret Luticia Sellars {Horn,Whaley} (3+)                      25Jul1852 MercerCo,Mo.25Jan1871Turlock, Ca.                                                           01Jul1926 Stockton,Ca.Rural Cem.

      Henry A. Horn

      Samal Whaley (0)                                                                              May 1846 Eng.Canada                             1903 Reno,Nev.                                                1925 Sonoma,Calif.

Their four children:

1) Fanny Rosalea Horn {Miller} (5)                                                         23Jun1878 California                                                                04Aug1897                              Sonoma,California

    James Franklin {Miller} {See Murphy-Miller Genealogy Chart for this family}

2) Nellie May Horn {Shirley} (3)                                                             18Sep1881 California                                                                22Jan1902 Horn Ranch,Stockton,Ca.

    Walter Joseph Shirley                                                                          31Dec1879   {See Note # 10}                                                                                  04May1934

  The three children of Nellie Horn Shirley:

   A. Mable Mae Shirley {Waldrip,Taylor}                                                                                                               26Feb1903                             25Dec1927SaltLake, Utah       lived in Santa Cruz through the l970’s.

     M1)Sylvan Waldrip (0)

     M2)Dr. Charles Taylor (0)

   B. Lloyd Joseph Shirley                                                                         07Aug1905

   C. Walter Alex.Shirley                                                                          06Aug1907                                                                25Aug1932

       md.Irma _____Jones

3) Caroline “Carrie”Matilda Horn{Johnson}(2)(+2adopt.}                       08Aug1884 Ca.                                                                20Sep1904   Last heard of in SF

    George Darling Johnson

4) Beatrice Luticia Horn Johnson                                                             08Jun1893 California                                                                                               after June 1900 {7 years}

The four children of Caroline Horn Johnson

 

1) Merle Virginia Johnson {Brooks} (1)                                                   03Nov1905                                                                June1926 {Was residing at 622  22nd Ave.SF,Ca.}

   Robert Brooks

Their child:

          Rex Eugene Brooks                                                                        06Aug1928

2) name of this child not known

3) ½ sis.Ida Johnson                                                                                 1899                                                        1935

4) ½ sis Josephine Johnson (Muir) (2)                                                      13Oct1911                                                                Sep1931

    md. Milliam B. Muir                                                                             1906

    Their two children:

     1) Edythe Gene Muir                                                                           Jun1932

     2) Josephine Lillian Muir                                                                    30Nov1935

 

13) Charles Weber Sellars                                                               02Dec1854 California                                                                01Jul1882                                26Jun1884 SanJose,Ca.{OHC}

      Emma Allison              (2)                                                                 Leavenworth,Kansas                                                                                                1929 Seattle,Washington

These two children were adopted by their uncle Michael Allen Garber Sellars  {See letter from Charles’ son Roy to Hal Rogers re: 1884 death}

1) William Leroy “Roy” Sellars                                                               31Jan1884 SanJose, Ca.                           {Living in Washington in l977}                            24Aug1978 Langley,Washington

     Cady ________ {adopted two daughters}

2) Charles Allen Sellars {6+}                                                                    28Feb1885 King Co,Washington                                                                24Feb1955 Eureka,Ca.

                                                                                                                              Charles was married at least six times….see note #  8

                                                                                                                         {Jeff res.Oakland 1912-postcard of Thelma’s}

14) Thomas Jefferson “Jeff” Sellars                                             02Oct1860*BuenaVista,Ca. 1898             {alive in 1920C.Berkeley,AlamedaCo.Ca. d. bef 1930C.}    

        Lillian E. Threlfall {1+}                                                                   Sep 1878New York                                                      {alive in 1930 C. for Fresno}

1) Mildred Charlotte Threfall {Wheeler}                                                 14Oct1899 California                                                                09Nov1922 Oakland,Ca.          23May1994 Fresno,Ca.

     John Edward Wheeler                                                                          1900 California                                                                {Oakland News,24Oct1922}           {see 1930C Fresno}

     {No children as of the 1930 Census}

 

NOTES :

Rockingham County, Virginia was formed in l777 from Augusta County, Virginia. David Sellars father and three uncles with General George Washington at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania {1776} this date was considered {Peter would have to have been born before 1758 NY to have been of military age for the campaign at Valley Forge} with the 1830 census to calibrate a birthdate for the father, Peter Sellars. Birth places for the parents of David Sellars come from census record for David Sellars in 1880 Santa Clara county, California. Sarah Morris {Sellars} parents born Tennessee. * Exact dates of death for David Sellars parents were provided by records in the possession of Mable Mae Shirley {Waldrip, Taylor}. Mable was the daughter of Nellie Horn and Nellie was the daughter of Margaret Luticia Sellars {and Margaret was the daughter of David Sellars and his third wife Sarah Morris}.

 

Note # 1 In 1880 Census for Mary LaBonta Bohannon {Thiel}….Mary seems to think her mother born in Missouri….actual is Tn.}

 

Note # 2 James Madison Sellars death certificate in the Tennessee State Library and archives, Carter County, Tennessee record # 132  age at death 95}.

See Google  TN Death Record ,Carter Co, Tn. Index 4 parts

 

Note # 3 Mary LaBonta Bohannon {Thiel} was married to August L. Thiel ca. 1872 Chico, Butte Co,Ca.

Their 3+ children :

1) Francis L. Thiel  (male)                                                                       ca.1873Calif.

2) Adrian A. Thiel (male)                                                                        ca.Aug1879 Calif.

3) Margaret “Gretchen” Thiel                                                                  ca.Oct.1880 California                                                                                             after 1900 *SF

 

Note# 4 Lydia B. “Liddie” Bohannon {Downer} married J. A. Downer born March 1839 TN.

Their two + Children:

1) William W. Downer                                                                             Nov1875 Calif.

2) Lewis C. Downer                                                                                  Apr 1880 Calif.

 

Note # 5 Census for Benton Co, Prosser, Washington,  April 15,1910 Dist. 18 :

John E. Sellars 78 TN {M2} 12 yr. 1898 TN VA VA Not a vet of Civil War

Phoebe Sellars 70 NY {M2} 12 yr. {1898} NY PA PA mother of 3 with one alive as of 1910 C}

 

Note # 6:

George Bohannon after 1910 Tres Pinos, San Benito,Ca.

 

Note # 7:

Michael Allen Garber Sellars in l860 Cal.

In l870 Redwood, Santa Clara Co,Ca.

In 1880 C. Washington Territory,King Co.Laborer, single, white river

 

Note # 8 :

The six marriages of Charles Allen Sellars :

M1} Tuna Mae Wooldridge (2)

___________________                         

___________________

 

M2} Emma Louise Diering

 

M3} Emily Cecelia Humburg

 

M4} Ruth Maeguerita Paul {4}                                                                 separated 1928

Their four children:

1) Charles Allen Sellars, Jr. (7)                                                                 09Jun1922 Rhonerville,Ca.                                                                                      15Sep1967 Eureka,Ca.Redwood Creek

 Married _____________

2) James Robert Sellars                                                                             04Nov1924 Westport,Mendocino,Ca.   did not marry                                                       21Dec1944

3) Norman Eugene Sellars (4)                                                                   22Sep1926 Eureka,California                                                                                   26Aug1975

md.______________                                                                              {One of their four children was named Thomas}

4) Emma Rebecca Sellars {Luster} (3)                                                      10May1922 Westport,Mendocino,Ca.  Reno,Nevada

md._______________

M5} Ann ____________                                                                        Arcata,California

                                                                                                                {Michael Sellars had a step daughter from Ann’s prior marriage}

M6}___________________                                                                   Madera, California

 

Note # 9

Frank Sellars                                            b. 1867 Calif. {son of Landen Carter Hanes Sellars} was married to Mamie O’Neil and had two children.

His wife ,Mamie O’Neal, was born 01 May 1872 California and died 20 Jan 1899 of a ruptured hemorage. Their 2 children:

1) Ida Sellars                                            ca. 1895 Ca.

2) Saddie S. Sellars {Clark, A.Vetter} {2+}ca. 1897 Ca.

Sadie’s two children:

1) Myrtle Clark                                        ca. 1920 Ca.

2) Robert Vetter                                       ca. 1925 Ca.

md._____________ (1+)

Myrtla Emma Vetter                                ca. 1945 California

 

Note # 10:

The Three children of Nellie May Horn {Shirley} and her husband Walter Joseph Shirley:

1) Mable Mae Shirley {Waldrip,Taylor}   26Feb1903                               25Dec1927 Salt Lake,Utah                      living in Santa Cruz in l978

     Sylvan Waldrip (0)

     Dr. Charles Taylor (0)

2) Lloyd Joseph Shirley                            07Aug1905

3) Walter Alex. Shirley                            06Aug1907                              25Aug1932

     Irma_Jones

 

Note # 11

Jeremiah “George “ Bohannon was in:

1880C Orland, Colusa, Ca

In 1900C  SF

In 1910C TresPinos ,San Benito Co ,Ca.

Note #12 Cemeteries of note in Carter county include:

Bowers Cemetery, Siam Community, Carter County, Tennessee

Ellis Family Cemetery, Elizabethon, Carter County, Tn. Sarafina Sellars {Ellis} wife of John Ellis may have family buried here…John’s sister Deb

Daniels-Ellis Cemetery  Carter County, Tn.                                                                                                      was married to Landen Carter in 1846.

George Mottern Cemetery located outside Elizabeton in a small town name Wautauga on the Watauga Road in Carter County, Tn. David Sellars grandson, John M. Sellars {1863-1936} is buried in this cemetery.

 

From HAL

Rogerscap@aol.com

 

SCHUYLER FAMILY

 

 

Schuyler family of New York …did a branch of this Schuyler family become the Sellars family of  Tennessee ?

12/29/2004

Attachment to an e-mail sent from Hal Rogers to Mike Sellers {mikeamber@cox.net}

Additional information added 12/30/2004;01/03/2005

 

Margaret Sellers Stevens ancestry is at a virtual dead end at the time of Margaret Sellers and her marriage to Thomas Stevens.  I have found no links to the Netherlands family of Pieter Tjercks {or Peter Diercks,1601-1656} and Peter Tjercks wife....the ever elusive Styntie Doudes. No evidence to suggest that their son Pieter Van Schuyler {born 1628/1634 Holland} ever had this fictitious bride Catherine Armentrout. This last marriage appears to be entirely myth......I do not believe it could ever have happened in the generation that has been singled out by the Stevens' family in their Ancestry.com submittals. The above mentioned Pieter Van Schuyler would have been at least 153 years old to have fathered Margaret Sellers {Stevens, born 1787}. The 1787 birthdate that the Stevens have assigned to Margaret Sellers Stevens does not check out correctly. According to the l830 census Margaret Sellers Stevens was born about thirty two years earlier in ca. l755. Even with this date, Pieter would have to have been 121 years old to have fathered Margaret Sellers Stevens. Margaret Sellers Stevens was not the daughter of our family’s Peter and Catherine Armentrout Sellars either. Margaret was born about ten years before Catherine Armentrout Sellars was born in ca. 1765 New Jersey !!!! If anything, Margaret Sellers Stevens is a more likely candidate for Peter’s sister, and certainly not his daughter.

 

Answers were discovered about the names used by this Van Schuyler family as follows:

 

1) Pieter Van Schuyler {born 1628 or January 10th, l634 in Holland} obtained the family name of Van Schuyler from his mother, Gertruyt Phillips Van Schuylder,  also spelled Geertruy Phillips Van Scholer. Some Ancestry.com submitters say Pieter's mother was Styntie Doudes but I think Gertruyt Phillips Van Schuylder is both logical and correct.

 

2) Pieter Van Schuyler's father, Pieter Tjercks, like most Dutchmen of the time, had no family name whatsoever. ".......It may have been unusual.....but it was not unique,  for sons to adopt their mother's names......". {so says Van Schuyler family descendant Robert Schmidt, 5-11-2003}

 

3) The Van Schuyler's had a brief stint in Amsterdam in merchandizing and bakery goods but the elder Pieter Tjercks was actually a native of Germany. Pieter Tjercks came to Amsterdam to bake and by two accounts....either 1629-1639 or by 1650 his two boys {Phillip and his younger brother David Pieterse Van Schuyler} had emigrated to Albany in New Netherlands.The family of this Davitt Pieterse Schuyler {2-12-1636 - 2-09-1690 Amsterdam, No. Holland, Netherlands, d. Albany, NY. emig.1650-60 from Amsterdam} is covered in more detail in  paragraph # 6 below. In December of 1650 Phillip Pieterse Van Schuyler was married to Margarita Van Slichenhorst, the daughter of the director of the Albany Colony. They had twelve American children between 1652 and 1672. It was their son Peter Schuyler "QUIDDER' who became a merchant and was subsequently appointed the first mayor of Albany.

 

4) Phillip Pieterse Van Schuyler died in 1683 and it was Phillip's second son, Colonel Peter Schuyler, and Phillip's daughter, Alvida Schuyler {1656-1727}, that are most noted in the records. In 1679 Alvida Schuyler married Robert Livingston {1654-1728}, 1st Lord of the Livingston Manor. She was remarried to a Van Rensselaer. In 1691 Alvida's brother,  Pieterse Schuyler, a gout sufferer, also married into that Van Rensselaer line, as he was married to Maria Van Rensselaer {She being a descendant of Killian Van Rensselaer, the first patroon of Rensselaerwyck, and a close friend and confidant of Martha Washington}. It was Pieter and Maria Schuyler's daughter, Elizabeth "Betsey" Schuyler that had married Alexander Hamilton on December 14th, l780. Hamilton was slain in a duel with Aaron Burr in July of 1804 about four months before his father-in-law  died.

 

Major-general Phillip John Schuyler, {11-22-1733 Albany, NY - 11/18/1804 Albany, NY} was Peter Schuyler's AKA Quidder's nephew. This major-general was probably George Washington's most trusted  of his four Major-generals at the time of the Revolutionary War. Phillip John Van Schuyler was not just another general....he was also part of Washington's personal family. Phillip was the second son of John Schuyler and the nephew of Peter Schuyler "QUIDDER".

 

Congress made Phillip John Schuyler a major-general just 2 days after the Battle of Bunker Hill. This general was married September 17th, l755 to Catharine Van Rensselaer {born November 4th, l734 and died March 7th, 1803} who was the god daughter of the commander-in-chief,  George Washington. Phillip and Catherine Schuyler had from eleven to fourteen children depending on whose records your depending on. Using records from the Schuyler chapter of the NSDAR the following five children of the fourteen children of Phillip and Catherine Schuyler are provided herein:

 

1. Angelica Schuyler married John Barker Church

2. Elizabeth "Betsey" Schuyler married Alexander Hamilton

3. Philip Jeremiah Schuyler married Mary Ann Sawyer

4. Catherine Van Rensselaer Schuyler married Samuel Bayard Malcom

5. Margaret Schuyler married Lt. Glovenor Stephen Van Rensselaer.

6-14 { names not yet found }

 

 The question at hand is this.....was this Major-general Phillip John Schuyler the grandfather of David Sellars and the father of Peter Sellars {1745-1835}….and the answer is no !!!  Phillip would have been between eleven and fourteen to have fathered Peter {ca.1745 – 1835}. Phillip Schuyler did not marry until ten years after our Peter Sellars was born.

 

Second question is……Was the other emigrant son of Peter Tjercks,  Davitt Pieterse Schuyler {1636-1690} connected to our Sellars family….perhaps a great grandfather of our David Sellars and the grandfather of Peter Sellars ? POSSIBLY …..more research will be required here. I want to pursue this as it is interesting to note that this DAVITT {1636-1690} had five sons and all five sons were given the name of David …Davitt ….Davidtse….it is quite clear that the significance of David can not be overlooked ? Did Peter Sellars {ca.1745 NY - July 25, 1835 TN} go by the name of Peter Schuyler at the time of the Revolutionary War ? Did this Peter Schuyler have three brothers of military age to have been with Washington at Valley Forge ?

 

 The Van Rensselaer family name found on the scrap of paper in our family's historical collection mentioned just before the holidays ……. had a little more bite to it.......it reads..... remarried to Van Rensselaer Manhattan, Jr. of New York, who had three daughters from the previous marriage.......

 

I could find no connection to the Schuylers and this Van Rensselaer...I did however find a connection between these Van Rensselaers mentioned on this scrap of paper and a fleeing French Huguenot family from France via Rotterdam to the American colonies. In as much as Susan Jacoby belonged to a family of French Huguenots that fled from both France and Germany...I have concluded that this scrap of paper was not out of place with the family's papers over the years. It will remain attached as a note to the Jacoby family and not that of the Sellars family.

 

5) Interestingly enough, these Van Schuylers / or Schuylers at the time of the Revolutionary War............ were very much involved at the Valley Forge campaign....a known focal point in time for the father and three uncles of David Sellars. Some of this information has beeen published in SCHUYLER FAMILIES OF NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY. AN HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.....by Peter R. Christoph. Some postings have also been placed in the Schuyler Family Genealogy Forum.

Brothers Phillip Schuyler {1-10-1634 Holland} and David Pieterse Schuyler {1636-1690}, the sons of Peter Tjerks and Gertruyt Phillips Van Schuylder, emigrated to Albany, New Netherlands by 1650.

 

6) Davitt Pieterse Schuyler {1636-1690} was married October 13th, l657 to Catlynje Ver Planck {2/1639 d.10/8/1708} in the Reformed Dutch Church of New Amsterdam. They had the following eight children:

    1.       Peter David Schuyler 4/18/1659 md.5/10/1681 d.3-7-1696 md. Alida Van

              Schlichtenhorst, this wife was buried 12/25/1747}.

    2.       Gertrude Schuyler {9/19/1661 d. 3/12/1746}

    3.       Abraham Davidtse Schuyler {8/6/1663 Beverwyck,New Neth.d.7/9/1726

              m.11/11/1691 Albany}

    4.       Maria Schuyler {9/29/1666 - 6/7/1742}

    5.       David Davidste Schuyler {6/11/1669 Albany d.12-16/1719 Albany}

    6.       Myndert Davidtse Schuyler _1/16/1672 - 10/18/1755}    

    7.       Jacobus Davidste Schuyler {1-14-1675 - 3-22-1707}

    8.       Catharina Schuyler {1/1677 - 10/24/1747}

In each case where a son was born the name of David was given. This name of David occurs five times for five sons.

 

7) The Stevens family have made an impossible claim to this family of Schuyler in New York. The most glaring example is where 15 Ancestry.com submitters signed on to the notion that Pieter Van Schuyler, the son of Tjerck Jansz, was the father of Margaret Sellers {born 1787}.   Didn't anyone do the math here?  How could Pieter Van Schuyler who was born in 1628 or 1634 father a daughter born in l787 ? It was physically impossible. It wouldn't even be possible for another generation beyond Pieter Schuyler to have fathered Margaret. There would be at least two missing generations for this to happen. Given the scant data that the Steven's family has provided for their own Margaret Sellers {1787-1847} it is apparent that a giant leap was taken to connect their Margaret Sellers {Stevens} to this Schuyler family.

 

This was not a methodology approach used by genealogists to locate Margaret's parents.....you have to at least have the dates correspond to the birth of Margaret Sellers.....not the slightest effort was made to do any genealogy research here. All I can say about the Schuyler dates at hand is this............if Davitt Pieterse Schuyler {1636-1690} and his wife Catherine Ver Planck Schuyler had eight children....... and their son Peter David Schuyler {1659-after 1747 NY}  married in 1681......... a genealogy pedigree would still need to come up with at least two missing generations {ca.1700 in NY and ca. 1756 NY} to associate this family of Schuyler's with the offspring of Margaret Sellers {Stevens}......Catherine Sellers {Barnes} or for that matter David Sellars {1798-1891}.

 

8) The trail has gone cold in regards to the Steven's genealogy being of any use to finding the ancestry of David Sellars. I do not know how the Steven's family made the determination that Margaret was a sister of David Sellars........until someone explains that I will dismiss this as just another guess based on name association and proximity alone of our David Sellars to that of Margaret Sellars {Stevens}. Based on the data in the l830 census I would be more inclined to assign her the relationship of Aunt to David Sellars…..the 1830 census places her birth at ca. 1755 plus or minus five years……..and that is ten years before Catherine Armentrout Sellars {her supposed mother} was born. Again the Stevens data just doesn’t work for me at all. Proximity..... does not...... a sister make !!!!!

 

9) You could look at this exercise as a big waste of time........but the debunking is

necessary to end those nagging questions that would remain lurking in the background....that someone may have discovered a link...that we were ignoring the possibilities. If I am wrong in my conclusions.....and I have made a fair share of mistakes along the way....it goes with the territory of always having to calibrate dates where virtually no dates exist....and speculating about name associations......but when the submittals are made public it becomes necessary for all of us genealogists to show the proof. I do not believe the proof can be provided by the Stevens family because it is physically impossible for a 153 year old Pieter Schuyler to father their family's Margaret Sellers,Stevens {born 1787}. Were the Stevens’ submitters off by a couple of generations......? That still begs the question of just how  the Stevens’ Family ever connected their Sellers family to this Schuyler family to begin with ?

 

10) It is time to return to the warmer trail we were on.....a trail that is very promising....we need to get back to Carter County, Tennessee. We need to find the gravesites for David's parents who I believe were buried somewhere in Carter County, Tennessee around 1835/1839. There are two reasons I feel good about the 1835/1839 dates of deaths for David Sellars parents. First reason: The scrap of paper with the death dates was handed down to our family from a descendant {Mable Mae Shirley {Waldrip, Taylor} of David's third marriage to Sarah Morris. This married couple, David Sellars and Sarah Morris, represented the main body of the Sellars family that left Carter County in 1849 during the gold rush. Second reason: The absence of the elder {Peter} Sellars from the 1840 census. Clearly the Sellars parents had been elderly by the time of the l830 census {Peter was between 80-90 years of age and his wife Catherine was between 60-70 years of age} and these parents were dead before the l840 census {they are absent from the l840 census}……..and the dates of death {provided by descendant Mable Taylor} for both Peter and Catherine Sellars confirm this conclusion to my satisfaction.

 

Was the father of David Sellars named Peter / Pieter Schuyler......was David Sellars' mother's name Catherine "Margaret" Armentrout....... keeping our minds open here.......these names have been suggested by the Barnes and Steven's families for many years. Could Pieter Schuyler have changed his name to Peter Sellars after the Revolutionary War when Pieter relocated to Rockingham County, Virginia where a number of Sellers families {no relationship being hinted at here} had already established themselves ? Did a surname alteration occur after the Revolutionary War ?...... This might explain the absence of the "Sellars" surname in the war records.

 

 According to the l880 census taken of David Sellars in Santa Clara, California…… David Sellars father was a native of New York and the mother a resident or native of New Jersey. Was this Kathrine Armentrout Sellers a daughter of one of the emigrant Armentrout brothers that had traveled from {New Jersey} to Pennsylvania and from there to {Rockingham County} Virginia ? {Parenthesis mine......}.

 

Was David Sellars’ first wife Margaret Barnes Mears, connected with James Barnes, Jr. and his wife Catherine Sellers and to that of Thomas Stevens { a half brother of James Barnes, Jr.} and his wife Margaret Sellers Stevens ? Margaret could not have been David’s sister….but based on the dates given in the l830 census Margaret Sellers Stevens could have been an aunt to David Sellars {1798-1891} and a sister of his father, Peter Sellars {ca.1745 NY – 07July1835 Knobb or Brush Creek, Washington Co.Tn}.

 

 

11)  I believe the key to finding the gravesites for the parents of David Sellars may be found with the living family descendants of David's son, James Madison Sellars, in today's Carter County, Tennessee. These descendants may not have a genealogist in their family and could be totally clueless that anyone from the Sellars family is now bearing down upon them with many questions. These James Madison Sellars descendants have at least some of the answers we are looking for.

 

I will get back to you as I get closer to that family in Carter County, Tennessee,

 

 

Yours,

 

Hal Rogers

Rogerscap@aol.com

12-29-2004

01-03-2005

 

from MICHAEL

Mike and Amber Sellers [mikeamber@cox.net]

Hi Hal and Marie,

 

Hal, I've been meaning to get back to you concerning the Shuylers and the

possibility that they are the family from which David Sellars descended.

The holidays and family being in town have prevented me from additional work

on what I started before Xmas.  However, I want to make a quick note to a

section posted below that I hope will help us understand what we are looking

at when we come across the naming of sons in the Schuyler family.

 

In particular, lets take a look at item #6 of the post concerning Davitt

Pieterse Schuyler {1636-1690} who was married October 13th, 1657 to Catlynje

Ver Planck {2/1639 d.10/8/1708} in the Reformed Dutch Church of New

Amsterdam.  Hal, you wrote that "In each case where a son was born the name

of David was given. This name of David occurs five times for five sons."

What I have found so far in studying the Dutch naming patterns while working

on the possible Sellars/Schuyler connection is that the middle name is NOT

an actual given name.  The name itself designates what the name of the

FATHER was.  In doing so for the middle name of the son(s), the Dutch took

the father's first name and added "se" to it.  Thus, the literal translation

of the middle name of "Davidse" means "Son of David".  Therefore, each and

every son born to Davitt Pieterse Schuyler should indeed have had the middle

name of "Davidse" because Davitt/David was the father of each of the boys.

Likewise, we can also determine that Davitt Pieterse Schuyler's father was

named "Pieter Schuyler" because of Davitt's middle name of "Pieterse", which

means "Son of Pieter".  This Dutch naming pattern is an excellent way for us

to determine family lines and who belonged to whom.

 

The Dutch naming patterns also give me pause when thinking about what, if

any, connection there is to our mysterious David Sellars and the Schuylers.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I do not know the actual nor proper

phonetic way to pronounce the name "Schuyler".  Is the pronounciation

"Shoo-ler", "Skoo-ler", "Soo-ler", "Sky-ler", etc.?  Does anyone knows the

exact and proper pronunciation cuz I'd love to know.  There is even a town

named SCHUYLER in Nelson County, Virginia, however, I don't know how to

pronounce it either.

In any case, we now know that in the names of Dutch males the 'middle' name

is the father's name with "SE" added to.  Now, let's say that David Sellars'

father was indeed Pieter or Peter Schuyler.  David's full name would've been

"David Peterse Schuyler".  When speaking the full name, the pronunciation of

the middle name and then the last name could make the "SE" of the middle

name sound like it belongs with the LAST name.  Hence, the "SE" could be

confused with being part of the last name.  Hence, David Pieterse Schuyler

in writing could become David Peter Se-Schuyler when spoken and thence

could've become David Peter Se-yler when spoken.  I think we all see the

possibility here of the SPOKEN pronunication of the name to go from David

Pieterse Schuyler to David Peter SE-LLER!  As we all know, the Census takers

and record collectors more often than not wrote down what they HEARD and not

necessarily how a name was actually spelled.

 

I'm certainly not saying that that is the case nor am I concluding that

David Sellars belongs to the Schuyler ancestry.  However, with the Dutch

naming patterns in tow and with what we are finding about the Schuyler

Family History as we go along, its something we need to consider.

 

I'm far from where I want to be in researching the Schuyler line, however,

my first reaction to the data was that Major General Philip John Schuler and

his documented connections to Washington are serious clues.  HOWEVER, I'm

with you, Hal, in that I do not think that he is a direct descendant of our

mystery man, David Sellars.  I agree 100% that the line descending from the

second son of the immigrant Peter Tjercks, Davitt Pieterse Schuyler

{1636-1690}, is a strong possibility that needs additional research.  If

David Sellars did indeed descend from the Schuylers, I think our answer will

like with this second son and not with the line of Major General Philip John

Schuyler.

 

 

Michael Sellers

 

HAL, I believe all three letters went thro to our SELLERS group.

 

Remember, Koontz Arrington, did Not get much further either. AND she had

all? available documents at that time.

So, we must collect New? info/documents and continue  to check them out.

 

Documents/Sources are One thing = doesn't make any diff if One person sends

them or Three, etc

 

I believe also following thro the other families could help.

 

I have Not had time to reread/check and Others may feel that the documents,

etc we have, are all posted, sent.

 

It helps to Resend Family info thro and see if new info comes in. Sometimes,

it does Not. Sometimes, later down the road, we will get a response from

someone working on the family, like you, And it does help.

 

MICHAEL has been very good to help, share Documents and that is All we have.

There may be inactive members listed on those pages = read all links thro

for info, but Michael has probably done?

 

TIME CHARTS on these families could help.

 

Best wishes, Happy New Years and Thanks for sharing.

marie, iowa

 

 

  -----Original Message-----

  From: Rogerscap@aol.com [mailto:Rogerscap@aol.com]

  Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:56 PM

  To: mari@netins.net

  Subject: Re: SCHUYLER FAMILY AND PETER SELLARS - ANY RELATIONSHIP ?

 

 

  Marie,

 

  You should have three revised attachments:

 

 

  1) Notes regarding census name associations and using neighbors to locate

precise locations in later census records. I see you got this one.....it

wasn't clear that it made it through so I sent it a few times. I think some

other items went with it.....but most of the items are also related to the

Sellars search.

 

  2) Schuyler Family....was this the original name for the Sellars family ?

This four page document answers some questions that are raised if

researchers are confused with

  the Sellars/Stevens Ancestry.com submittals.........researchers have a

right to be confused

  and hopefully this will clear up some of that confusion.

 

  3) The third attachment is also a revised pedigree chart for the Sellars

family dated January 2nd, 2005 {Rev. Level 1}. This Sellars pedigree chart

is undergoing changes on a daily basis and I have decided to assign new date

and revision levels as changes are made.

 

   Although I never have listed Margaret Sellers {Stevens} as a sister of

our family's David Sellars....... I have decided to include Margaret as a

possible sister of David's father....

  Peter Sellars. I will be adding a brother Solomon Sellars {brother to

David Sellars} shortly.

 

  If any one of the above three attachments did not go through....let me

know.....the response

  level thus far has been disappointing for the level of membership you have

quoted me. I have located Patsey Stevens aat her more recent e-mail address

regarding her query on the Armentrout gen forum way back in January of 2002.

Still waiting for her reply.......this should be good !!!!

 

  Yours,

 

  Hal Rogers

  Rogerscap@aol.com

  1-02-2005

=

Marie,

 

Just got back from the library in downtown Santa Cruz......we are lucky to have a library

that continues to stay open on Sunday's......all of Salinas' libraries are shutting down at the end of March due to the ever increasing budget woes inherent in this depressed economy.

 

Can you believe they will close every library in Salinas....would anyone want to live in a town with no libraries? What would John Steinbeck think of his hometown now ?

 

 

While at the library I discovered a second Margaret Sellers Stevens in the 1830 census. I understand now how the Stevens were able to calculate a birthday of l787.......I will adjust my pedigree chart accordingly and add her as one of two potential sisters of David Sellars.

The other Margaret Stevens {ca,1755} is probably her husband's mother {placing her in the same age range as Peter Sellars, ca. 1745 NY}. How much would you want to bet that I get an earful now from those who have caught this mistake ? All I can say is bring it on !!!!!

 

Marie......to your knowledge has anyone else built a pedigree chart for this family ? If I am

simply re-inventing the wheel here I would like to see how someone else has already built it. If you know of another pedigree chart please pass it on and save me some work....it is a lot easier to follow a completed pedigree chart for clues than to do all the trailblazing yourself.

I know someone out there has already used these census records to build their own charts.....where is the sharing ?  Where is their data ? Why do I find it necessary to  build their families from scratch ?

 

I do not recall any attempt by Koontz Arrington to build a pedigree chart for either the families of David or Peter Sellars......she wanted no part of that.......she made it clear that she was unable to link David Sellars to the Heinrich Zeller/Sellers family....and I can see why....this has been a "brick wall" just as Mike Sellers has said before. Mike may have got burnt out after going through tons of the Schuyler family data that the Stevens family

was advocating in their Ancestry.com submittals. Mike is a good researcher and has been a good ally to bounce ideas off of. This Schuyler business has already consumed two full weeks of my time and I am still not finished canceling out the Schuylers once and for all.

 

You mentioned a time-line again.....the Pedigree Chart is a first step in that direction....it is necessary to know who most of your principal players are when putting together a time-line.....wouldn't you agree ?

 

If we are unable to find out more about Peter Sellars and his wife Catherine Armentrout....especially how Peter Sellars hooks into the New York Sellars..... it may not be possible for anyone to do much more. Maybe everyone has already given up. Just getting those two dates of death for Catherine and Peter Sellars into public circulation should be the shot in everyone's arm to get back into the search.

 

I am expecting a reply from Patsey Stevens....she may have something new to offer....she was just about where I am now about three years ago when she put forth her query. She has been quiet since......but maybe she found something too.

 

 

Happy New Year,

 

Hal Rogers

Rogerscap@aol.com

1-2-2005